Star Trek

[innerSpaceman]

Yeah, I saw that on your el jay, and it would have rocked. But I never got the impression Abrams was trying to even remotely establish such a difference. Quite the opposite in fact.


I guess I really don't consider destroying Vulcan that big a deal. Nor collaspsing 8 years of Starfleet history into one week for the sake of presenting it in a single episode. Rather I thought J.J. was incredibly faithful to Star Trek and the rather drastic twist you suggest, while cool, would have been uncharacteristic to the character of the film - -as I perceived it at any rate.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Yup, that's a huge list Alex posted, and I can't quibble with any of those quibbles. But I still loved it, and will continue to use the word "loved".

Originally Posted by Melonballer

Zachary Quinto and Chris Pine on SNL

It's funny, but it wasn't until we saw this that it actually occurred to me that Chris Pine really is attractive. He never really caught my eye during the film.

[Alex]

I agree that destroying Vulcan is not that big of a deal if you take Star Trek as primarily a chronicle of the joint career of seven specific Starfleet officers. And I know that this is how a lot of Star Trek fans (and pretty much all of the, at best, casual Star Trek watchers) view it.

But for me, as someone who as always engaged with it at the much higher level of those seven people (then, with later series, different crews) simply being the lens through which a much larger universe is observed, destroying Vulcan is much more significant than killing any one of those seven people would be.

Plus, doing what I suggested so early in the movie would have hugely ramped up the suspense and feeling of real danger through the rest of the movie. Kind of like once they killed

Spoiler:

Wash in Firefly

you had an "oh ****, this could have real repercussions" feeling for the rest of the movie.

[innerSpaceman]

Ah, yes, that IS the big difference. And I'm having a hard time thinking of any episode of any Star Trek I have watched (never seen much of Deep Space Nine or Enterprise) that didn't wisely bring the focus back (if it ever momentarily departed) to the main cast of characters, where the audience's emotional connection lies.


For the vast majority of viewers, the only possible emotional connection with the destruciton of Vulcan was the death of Amanda, the solitary known character. Even this was iffy, as I don't think we'd made any emotional connection with her new incarnation. It's not enough to just don an Amanda mask and, viola, you're Amanda.

The big success of the new Star Trek, imo, was establishing an emotional connection with new Spock and new Kirk, et al. If they'd have ...

Spoiler:

killed Spock in the first five minutes, I really wouldn't have cared either ... because Quinto had not yet established himself to me as Spock. Similarly, killing off Sulu would have little effect, because ... to date, actually, that actor has not really established himself as Hikaru Sulu.

So, no, not at all the same as killing Wash, which was a fantastic move. But, in any event, Farscape is a little grittier than Star Trek. Still, brave and effective ... but perhaps because it had never been done. And why am I spoiler tagging something from a 5-year-old movie?

[Pirate Bill]

I love-love-LOVED the movie. Even looking back on Alex's list of flaws, like ISM, those things just didn't bug me at the time. I was too caught up in the fun of it. And quite frankly, the flaws still don't bug me. And I'd consider myself a Star Trek uber-geek.

The franchise has really suffered after Voyager and Enterprise (which I see as more symptoms than causes really) and was in need of a major jolt if it was ever going to get going again. In fact, I'm really surprised anyone was even brave enough to try. When I first heard a new Star Trek movie was in the works I was very worried, fearful, and even disappointed (again...big fan here). What this movie has done is extraordinary and has brought new life to the franchise.

I look forward to seeing it again this weekend.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Just adding a "me too". I recognize all of the holes and shortcomings. And I was aware of them while watching. But for whatever reason, something about this movie let me tune it all out. I'm rarely that forgiving for ANY movie, let alone Trek (for a time, the only thing a search for my name on the internet turned up was an email list for the Nitpicker's Guide fan club). But somehow this movie managed to strike a tone that allowed me to say, "Screw it, I'm just going to sit back and enjoy this."

And as a testament to how engaged I was in the movie, I just looked up the runtime. I'm shocked to learn that that was a hair over 2 hours. By the 2 hour mark of a movie I'm usually feeling pretty impatient. I would have pegged it a 90-100 minutes based on my perception.

[JWBear]

I still don't get why anyone found this tedious and porly written movie to be fun. What was it that you all found fun in this movie? I'm just not seeing it.

[Alex]

Personally I'd say that because of the cheat of hooking a stupid story to beloved characters, and because they didn't commit any particular atrocities to those characters it made the stupidity more acceptable.

I enjoyed almost everything that was at the very character local level (except Karl Urban, the Muffit, and the horrible make-up/cgi on the Orion)

I'd say the larger story here is actually stupider than in Transformers was two years ago and I gave it absolutely no quarter since it had neither a good story nor characters I should care about.

[Ghoulish Delight]

What Alex said, save for I quite like Urban as Bones.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by JWBear

I still don't get why anyone found this tedious and porly written movie to be fun. What was it that you all found fun in this movie? I'm just not seeing it.

You mean us on this board, and 91% of critics and 96% of all filmgoers everywhere on this planet and the next?


TEDIOUS? I'll grant you poorly-written, but it seems from the comments here and my personal reaction and the reaction of the twenty-plus friends I've so far seen it with, that the infectious spirit and move-along pace and energy either detracted from or negated consideration of the screenwriting flaws.


Here's the short way to arrive at everything I found fun in this movie. Take the entire movie, subtract 50% of Alex's list of quibbles, and everything left is what I found fun and enjoyable.



Oh, I'll make it easier.

Kirk on the road to Kirk with Shatner-like Kirk at the end.

Spock on the road to Spock, being an excellent Spock even with the real Spock on hand to mock the new Spock.

Kirk and Spock.

Hysterical Dr. McCoy.

Kirk and McCoy.

McCoy and Spock.

Kirk in Green Girl's dorm room.

Kirk in his underwear.

Kirk smiling just at me in the audience.

Kirk.

The Geekship Enterprise.

Simon Peg, er, I mean, Scotty, yeah, Scotty.

Ben Cross as Sarek.

Alternate Timeline device as a shorthand for reboot with differences.

Destroying Vulcan as a short-cut to re-establishig the tortured Stranger-in-a-Strange-Land Spock of early Star Trek.

Costumes, Production Design, Special Effects.

The entire opening sequence.

The cool, nonsensical Drill of Fire and implausible but neat skydive from space for cool Kirk and Sulu male bonding fight on it.

The completely stupid stranding of Kirk on the impossibly-close-to-Vulcan sister planet to Hoth, just so that alien monsters can chase Kirk.

Kirk in obligatory bar fight in Iowa.

Spock beating the carp out of Vulan bullies. Spock baited into losing it on the Bridge and nearly choking Kirk to death. Out of control emotional Spock.

Great McCoy Dialogue.

Adorable Ensign Chekov.

Two friends of mine in so many scenes as Starfleet Cadet extras.

Smoldering Kirk and Uhura proto-romance, lesser appreciation for Uhura-Spock romance, but great love triangle jealousy pon-farr foder.

the 8th time Kirk hangs by his bare hangs over a deadly height.

Transporters actually working to rescue characters on multiple occassions instead of breaking down to keep characters in jeopardy.

Cool going to warp effect.

Way-cool new transporter effect.

Use of my alma-mater CSUN campus library as Starfleet Academy.

Cool phaser battle.

Lotsa laughs peppered througout.

Kirk.

And ... the awesome shot of the Narada with Kelvin-inflicted damage as the convoy of shuttles escape against the backdrop of a huge star, and the best strains of Michael Giaccino's score as it seques to the bitchin' Title shot.



There's more, but that's off the top of my head.


Oh, and I really liked Chris Pine as Kirk and as my new boyfriend. And loved, loved, impossibly loved Zachary Quinto as Spock.