Lost!

[bewitched]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

I agree with this observation, the entire finale did have a sorta Deus ex machina sort of feel to it....from Bernard/Rose/Vincent being "retired"...

I think Rose and Bernard are the "Adam and Eve" skeletons from the cave in season one.

Also, interestingly, Lindelof (one of the creators) noted at one point (in speaking of the skeletons):

There were certain things we knew from the very beginning. Independent of ever knowing when the end was going to be, we knew what it was going to be, and we wanted to start setting it up as early as season 1, or else people would think that we were making it up as we were going along. So the skeletons are the living -- or, I guess, slowly decomposing -- proof of that. When all is said and done, people are going to point to the skeletons and say, "That is proof that from the very beginning, they always knew that they were going to do this."

This also speaks to what is bothering CP...I do think that sometimes along the way they've had to say, "gee, we implied this because we wanted to go here and now we need to add these things in order for it ultimately happen and make sense."

[bewitched]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

They went to Jacob's cabin. Ben said it was Jacob in there. Christian claimed he was Jacob at one point.

Not that saying something conclusively has ever stopped them from changing the "facts" on us.

When they put Esau in the picture and told us it was him that was Locke, it infers that there are two supernatural beings at play when we only knew about one. The inference is clear, as JW posted. Even if you don't go that far it still means that everything is up for questioning.

There are twists when characters do things we don't expect, there are twists when new information is revealed about existing circumstances. This is NOT a twist, because this character was not in play for the last 5 years.

I really don't know how else I can put it.

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

For my taste, the "clues" were far too vague. For all of the other surprises, there was an obvious, specific vacuum in the story that they filled.

There were whispers and killings and kidnappings - so we meet the others

Desmond was stranded, being kept from his wife, and a mysterious ship was looking for the island and Desmond - so we meet Whidmore.

There is an abundance of scientific equipment, and strange things like polar bears - so we learn about Dharma.

There are mysterious happening on the island in the form of the living dead, smoke monsters, et al. - so we learn about Jacob.

But this new guy? His effect is so overreaching, and dropped in so suddenly, it's a total hand wave. "Hey, everyone, check out this guy. He hates Jacob....oh and by the way he's responsible for pretty much everything that's happened."

All I can think is the end of the Simpsons Lord of the Rings spoof episode. "And they were rescued by, oooh, let's say Moe."

But they've been clear some time that there were two sides and that people needed to choose which side they were on. Most of us always assumed that meant the two sides were Ben and Widmore. They are now clarifying that the two sides are Jacob and "Esau" (and one would assume that Ben and Widmore are/were the de facto "leaders" of each faction). Personally, I don't consider that a bait and switch nor an obfuscation. They never said those were the sides. Sure, they implied, but I believe the implication was only a plot point to allow the story to become more fleshed out.

[bewitched]

Originally Posted by Eliza Hodgkins 1812

I think my friend Mike and I may be the only two people who don't think he's evil. Heh.

I'm inclined to think he may be more a Judas figure (in the more modern interpretation that Judas was "chosen" by Jesus- as his most faithful servant, to "betray" Jesus in order to fulfill the prophesy of his resurrection).

On a similar note, I think Smokey didn't kill Ben because it (or he, if you are inclined to think he is aligned with the man in black) is unable to kill anyone directly "touched" by Jacob which brings me to another point...

That Jacob (as sleepyjeff notes) went out of his way to touch each of the main characters in their flashbacks. If you throw in the biblical references that have been part of the Lost mythology, I don't think it's a big leap to interpret this as Jacob "choosing" his disciples and ultimately "saving" them in the process.

Doc Jenson (on ew.com) theorizes that the bomb will send them all back to the moment that Jacob touched them but with all of the knowledge they've already accumulated and that they will eventually return to the island of their own volition to fight to save Jacob and the integrity of the island...hence, the "coming war".

Originally Posted by Jacob

they're coming.

(I personally think he didn't save Nadia because doing so wouldn't have "saved" Sayid...she still would have been killed by one of (supposedly) Widmore's cohorts and Sayid would have turned to a dark path in order to exact revenge and/or because he had nothing to live for. Nadia dying by being hit by a car makes it nothing more than a tragic accident, one which requires no act of revenge...and Sayid is thus "saved" from the dark path of vengence.)

[bewitched]

And yes, I am far too obsessed w/ Lost.



Miss me?

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by bewitched

(I personally think he didn't save Nadia because doing so wouldn't have "saved" Sayid...she still would have been killed by one of (supposedly) Widmore's cohorts and Sayid would have turned to a dark path in order to exact revenge and/or because he had nothing to live for. Nadia dying by being hit by a car makes it nothing more than a tragic accident, one which requires no act of revenge...and Sayid is thus "saved" from the dark path of vengence.)

I actually like this explanation, and a lot of the other stuff you said made sense to me as well.

At this point I've already put my LOST brain into hibernation. See you 2010!

[BarTopDancer]

The more I watch the re-runs the more my heart breaks for them. Right now is the episode where Jin is begging Sun's father to let him marry her and agrees to work for him as a thug.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Originally Posted by bewitched

And yes, I am far too obsessed w/ Lost.



Miss me?

You may have single handedly redeemed the finale for me. I'll have to give it a rewatch soon.

[lashbear]

We've got Series 5 on DVD and we're going back re-watching it, seeing as how our viewing was interrupted by a lil ole USA trip, etc.....

Just finished the first three episodes. Watching them in sequence makes it SO much more understandable.

[bewitched]

Originally Posted by lashbear

We've got Series 5 on DVD and we're going back re-watching it, seeing as how our viewing was interrupted by a lil ole USA trip, etc.....

Just finished the first three episodes. Watching them in sequence makes it SO much more understandable.

I totally agree! It makes it SO much easier to put all of the little clues together. I can't wait for January...well other than the freezing and the snow and all.

[lashbear]

Originally Posted by Disneyphile

Richard seems timeless (even perhaps immortal)... and he has a LOT of eyeliner...

Originally Posted by Pirate Bill

Richard (who doesn't actually wear eyeliner, it's just his eyelashes).

Originally Posted by SzczerbiakManiac

Just FYI, Nestor Carbonell's eyelashes are naturally very dark. He does not wear eyeliner.

He may not wear eyeliner, but there was actually an eyeliner reference to Richard in the show's dialogue (don't make me try and remember who said it, it probably was Sawyer...) That's when Greg & I noticed that he had very dark eyelashes.