Chastity Bono announces gender reassignment - Page 3

Gemini Cricket · 06-12-2009, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

I disagree.

Well, you don't HAVE to understand. But I think it's important to try.

It helps me to try to understand people and their motivations, their needs, their wishes. It helps me to consider others in my daily interactions, and to consider the larger picture of how the human world moves.

So it doesn't matter whether I'm trying to understand gay people or trans-identified people or republicans or illegal immigrants or bullies or animal trainers. Seeking to understand them, hard as it may be sometimes, helps me be a better person - not just to them, but to everyone.

VLSPEM!

scaeagles · 06-12-2009, 01:22 PM

understood. Perhaps I didn't word it in the best way.

Understanding is perhaps not the best term. I do think it is important to try to understand those who are different than you are.

Perhaps embrace and agree with? Embrace and think is awesome? Embrace and be supportive of in every way?

3894 · 06-12-2009, 01:25 PM

Geez, why on earth would a woman in our society want to be a man?

Alex · 06-12-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I do think it is important to try to understand those who are different than you are.

I'm willing to stand up for what you originally said. I don't think it is even all that important to try and understand the ways that others are different so long as you don't do anything to interfere with those differences.

I'm not going to try and understand why some people like off-road unicycling or wallpaper their dorm rooms with Playboy centerfolds. But I'm also not going to attempt to do anything to interfere with them.

I'll admit that most of the time when people try to explain themselves my honest (even if unexpressed) response is that of Tommy Lee Jones standing in a tunnel: "I don't care."

Strangler Lewis · 06-12-2009, 01:56 PM

Except you sort of have to understand it at least a bit to determine that it's a difference that should not be interfered with. As opposed to the difference between choosing to work for a living or to steal from others. Even with the latter, understanding is required to determine the appropriate sanction.

Alex · 06-12-2009, 02:10 PM

I would say that's not true. I only need to know the outcome to know if I think that should be interfered with. Only if the answer is yes, then do I care to understand the why to see if that changes my point of view.

Since I don't care if people are gay, I really don't care beyond a purely academic interest why they're gay. Since I do care if people are killed then I have more than a purely academic interest in why Person A killed Person B.

In the iSm example, so long as Steve isn't interfering with transgendered people in anyway, while it may be nice if he learned enough and gained an understanding so as to overcome his issues I don't think it is particularly relavent whether he does.

innerSpaceman · 06-12-2009, 02:18 PM

I'd like to be a girl so I could dress more fancifully and change my hairstyle a lot. That would be fun. I could do all that by pretending to be a girl.

If, however, I'd like to be a girl for how much (usually) more compassionate, nurturing, empathetic, and generally enlightened they are as a gender ... not only is that something I cannot achieve via hormones, surgery, dress-up or self-delusion/intense belief - - it's something I could just as easily accomplish as a man and be no less man or more woman for the accomplishment.

Morrigoon · 06-12-2009, 02:34 PM

I think perhaps some folks find it easier to be themselves if the world sees them as a different gender?

I admit, I don't understand it either, but I do try to respect it.

I understand from Steve's perspective, that he's trying to understand it to get how it's relative to his experience as a gay man who finds his issues lumped in with theirs in terms of advocacy, and so he's trying to understand the relationship so he can better appreciate the grouping rather than feel resentful that there's any dilution of strength behind the things he's fighting for. (OMG run-on sentence!)

flippyshark · 06-12-2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

VLSPEM!

VLSPEM? Okay, I've been trying to look up acronyms and tone down my hateful rhetoric about them, but a Google search of VLSPEM got me nowhere. Please translate, and then tell me where I go to get my 21st century compatible brain.

(Sorry for the derail, all.)

Alex · 06-12-2009, 03:05 PM

Visible <<insert username abbreviation>> Mojo.

Sadly, the tribute to my greatness that was originally VAM has been bespoiled by the hoi polloi and vulgarate. Though I am also pleased to have in some way spawned a snowclone.

06-12-2009, 01:22 PM	#22
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	understood. Perhaps I didn't word it in the best way. Understanding is perhaps not the best term. I do think it is important to try to understand those who are different than you are. Perhaps embrace and agree with? Embrace and think is awesome? Embrace and be supportive of in every way?
	Submit to Quotes

06-12-2009, 01:25 PM	#23
3894 Next Stop: Funkytown! Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cheeselandia Posts: 1,907	I'm handing out 2x4s for you to whack the back of my head so my eyeballs roll back do Geez, why on earth would a woman in our society want to be a man? __________________ "I didn't want to have to do this, but you leave me no choice. Here comes the smolder." - Flynn Rider, "Tangled"
	Submit to Quotes

06-12-2009, 01:56 PM	#25
Strangler Lewis Doing The Job Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: In a state Posts: 3,956	Except you sort of have to understand it at least a bit to determine that it's a difference that should not be interfered with. As opposed to the difference between choosing to work for a living or to steal from others. Even with the latter, understanding is required to determine the appropriate sanction. __________________ Live now-pay later. Diner's Club!
	Submit to Quotes

06-12-2009, 02:10 PM	#26
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	I would say that's not true. I only need to know the outcome to know if I think that should be interfered with. Only if the answer is yes, then do I care to understand the why to see if that changes my point of view. Since I don't care if people are gay, I really don't care beyond a purely academic interest why they're gay. Since I do care if people are killed then I have more than a purely academic interest in why Person A killed Person B. In the iSm example, so long as Steve isn't interfering with transgendered people in anyway, while it may be nice if he learned enough and gained an understanding so as to overcome his issues I don't think it is particularly relavent whether he does.
	Submit to Quotes

06-12-2009, 02:18 PM	#27
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	I'd like to be a girl so I could dress more fancifully and change my hairstyle a lot. That would be fun. I could do all that by pretending to be a girl. If, however, I'd like to be a girl for how much (usually) more compassionate, nurturing, empathetic, and generally enlightened they are as a gender ... not only is that something I cannot achieve via hormones, surgery, dress-up or self-delusion/intense belief - - it's something I could just as easily accomplish as a man and be no less man or more woman for the accomplishment.
	Submit to Quotes

06-12-2009, 02:34 PM	#28
Morrigoon I throw stones at houses Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Location: Location Posts: 9,534	I think perhaps some folks find it easier to be themselves if the world sees them as a different gender? I admit, I don't understand it either, but I do try to respect it. I understand from Steve's perspective, that he's trying to understand it to get how it's relative to his experience as a gay man who finds his issues lumped in with theirs in terms of advocacy, and so he's trying to understand the relationship so he can better appreciate the grouping rather than feel resentful that there's any dilution of strength behind the things he's fighting for. (OMG run-on sentence!) __________________ http://bash.org/?top "It is useless for sheep to pass a resolution in favor of vegetarianism while wolves remain of a different opinion." -- William Randolph Inge
	Submit to Quotes

06-12-2009, 03:05 PM	#30
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	Visible <<insert username abbreviation>> Mojo. Sadly, the tribute to my greatness that was originally VAM has been bespoiled by the hoi polloi and vulgarate. Though I am also pleased to have in some way spawned a snowclone.
	Submit to Quotes