Obama

[Alex]

However, I do not believe it was racially motivated in anyway.

That seems a leap of faith unwarranted by the story. I don't think it is necessary to explain the story but it is hardly outside the realm of precedent that police might treat a black man more harshly than othwlerwise.

But if he had not erred on the side of caution and something had happened, there would be cries of him not caring enough about an elderly black man to help him.

There might be such cries but then i'd argue they're wrong as well.

I'm perplexed at how arresting someone with no legal justification is erring on the side of caution and not simply an abuse of power. There are completely different recourses available if the lice feek you're unstable and pose a physical risk to yourself or others. Those channels were not used and nothing in the police record suggests they were considered. He was arrested for making a scene.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

How is making an error the right thing?



And just what caution might you be referring to?




And yes, scaeagles, handcuffs are always a welcome assistance to an elderly black man.

He said that he felt Gates was acting strangely. He still had a lot of suspicions about Gates and the way he was acting so he hauled him in. Cops always go into situations thinking of the worst case scenario that could or has happened. That's a good thing, imho. What if they arrested him and then found out it wasn't his house after all? I mean, we can 'what if' til we all turn blue (LoT is pretty blue in color already) but the possibility that something else might be going on was there.

I would have made the same error. In the same situation, I would have done the same thing.

Handcuffs are used for everybody. The handcuffs were not excessive.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

I think it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of thing.

Damned if you don't? You think there would have been a stink about this if the officer had apologized, gotten into his patrol car and driven away?


That pretty much makes this a non-story. Obama would have never been asked about it. It would not have even made the Harvard Faculty Weekly Newsrag.


PuLease.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I didn't say the guy was stupid, though....Obama did. I agree with GC that he erred on the side off caution. Stupid would have been to beat the hell out of the man or engage him in some form of shouting match.

No, he did not say the guy was stupid, he said he made a stupid decision.

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

My problem with Obama's comment was stated in the comment itself. He said he didn't see all of the facts and yet he said the cop acted stupidly. Hey, I'm guilty of doing that all the time, but I'm just an internet mischief-maker and not the president.

Again, not what he said. He said he didn't have all the facts to determine the stupid decision was racially motivated, but still felt it was a stupid decision, racially motivated or not.

[Alex]

That was typed on my phone. "lice feek" is "police feel"

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

Handcuffs are used for everybody. The handcuffs were not excessive.

Yes, GC, I use handcuffs on my grandchildren. Everyone loves them.


Whenever they sass me, on go the cuffs.


Gotta do it, they might hurt themselves or others.




What are you on about, really? Can you just say you're unbelievably biased and leave it at that?

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Again, not what he said. He said he didn't have all the facts to determine the stupid decision was racially motivated, but still felt it was a stupid decision, racially motivated or not.

I'm not pointing it out in regards to race or anything. Obama made a decision that the police acted stupidly without knowing everything about what happened.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

What are you on about, really? Can you just say you're unbelievably biased and leave it at that?

Because I don't see it that way. I'm not going to side with the police on every single situation. At this time, I agree with this policeman.

[scaeagles]

Oh, and I retract my statement about Obama not saying it was racially motivated. He didn't directly say it, but he certainly implied it when he added to his comments how there has been a history of police mistreating African americans and latinos.

And you're getting wrapped up in semantics. To say someone acted stupidly is to say they were stupid in what they did. So yes, I believe Obama called him stupid.

[Alex]

And nothing since has shown his assessment to be in error. So it would appear that while he may not have had all of the facts, he had enough to nail that one (though again I agree he shouldn't have said anything, but not because what he said was wrong).

Just for the record here is the transcript of the question and answer. He was specifically asked to comment on race relations as illuminated by the story.

Q Thank you, Mr. President. Recently Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. was arrested at his home in Cambridge. What does that incident say to you and what does it say about race relations in America?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I should say at the outset that "Skip" Gates is a friend, so I may be a little biased here. I don't know all the facts. What's been reported, though, is that the guy forgot his keys, jimmied his way to get into the house, there was a report called into the police station that there might be a burglary taking place -- so far, so good, right? I mean, if I was trying to jigger into -- well, I guess this is my house now so -- (laughter) -- it probably wouldn't happen. But let's say my old house in Chicago -- (laughter) -- here I'd get shot. (Laughter.)

But so far, so good. They're reporting -- the police are doing what they should. There's a call, they go investigate what happens. My understanding is at that point Professor Gates is already in his house. The police officer comes in, I'm sure there's some exchange of words, but my understanding is, is that Professor Gates then shows his ID to show that this is his house. And at that point, he gets arrested for disorderly conduct -- charges which are later dropped.

Now, I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played in that, but I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry; number two, that the Cambridge Police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home; and number three, what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there is a long history in this country of African Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. That's just a fact.

As you know, Lynn, when I was in the state legislature in Illinois, we worked on a racial profiling bill because there was indisputable evidence that blacks and Hispanics were being stopped disproportionately. And that is a sign, an example of how, you know, race remains a factor in this society. That doesn't lessen the incredible progress that has been made. I am standing here as testimony to the progress that's been made.

And yet the fact of the matter is, is that this still haunts us. And even when there are honest misunderstandings, the fact that blacks and Hispanics are picked up more frequently and oftentime for no cause casts suspicion even when there is good cause. And that's why I think the more that we're working with local law enforcement to improve policing techniques so that we're eliminating potential bias, the safer everybody is going to be.

He says in there
- I don't know if this particular arrest was racially motivated, but
- this country has a long history of minorities being disproportionately impacted by just this sort of non-cause arrest so it even if it wasn't racially motivated in this case it is reasonable to understand why there'd be suspicion.

I have no problem with either part of that. So, you'll have to retract it again. He in no way implied that the arrest was racially motivated. He quite explicitly said that even if it wasn't it is understandable that some (such as Gates) would jump to that conclusion.