The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[wendybeth]

They are astroturf. My idiot sister-in-law is one of them. The whole family was raised on military health, then switched to public assistance/medicaid, and now their grandkids are on SSI and Medicaid. They are vehemently against Obama and healthcare reform because everyone knows he's a socialist and socialized medicine is JUST WRONG!!!! (sigh).

[scaeagles]

Perhaps I do not understand the meaning of astroturf. I thought astroturf meant an artificial grass roots movement. The vast majority of the protesters are certainly not artificial.

[SacTown Chronic]

One protester at a town hall meeting in a medicade heavy town near me kept having her concerns (of which there were many) about Obama's socialist health care plans shot down by demonstrable facts. Finally, frustrated by the realization that she had no idea what she was talking about - stupid chain e-mails let me down! -, she showed her Astroturfy colors (uglier than Boise State's) and got to the point: "I don't need no n!gger in Washington telling me what kind of health care I can have". Score!


Oh yes, scaeagles, most of 'em are as artificial as a rubber dong. They take their marching orders from Idiots With Mics and they're not really protesting what they say they are protesting. I know these people. Oh how I fvcking know them. Signs showing swastikas with red circle-slashes go way beyond any reasonable discourse about the direction of health care in this country. Really? We need to drag the Nazis into a discussion about healh care? It seems to me that if you had actual concerns, you'd take the time to get the facts before showing up at a town hall meeting. I'm not seeing much of that.

[wendybeth]

It is artificial. My SIL is an idiot, to be sure, but she's been egged on by the likes of Beck, Limbaugh, and all the other hate mongers who tell her that her misery in life is caused by Democrats. I've known her a long time and can pretty much state with confidence that is has been a series of very poor choices that has led her to her current situation. She's caught up in the whole Tea Party and Town Hall thing, but if she understood what she was protesting and just how very much she has benefited from (and continues to benefit from) state and federally funded programs, I wonder if she would be such an active participant. I don't bother talking to her about it- I've had enough with trying to reason with stupidity. I really think she just likes belonging to a group that makes her feel important- sort of like joining a cult, but without the expense.

[BarTopDancer]

Does Goodwin's law apply to political debates?

[wendybeth]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

Does Goodwin's law apply to political debates?

I think that's pretty much the only time it's ever invoked. The real question is: Does Darwin's Law? Part of me would like to see some of these 'Astroturfers' get their wish. A very small, very mean part of me.

[scaeagles]

I can cite just as many anecdotal examples of why I beleive those for it are "astroturfers" as well. My brother in law is in a union and he was told to go to a recent town hall and support the program. I am certain both sides have those elements, but I am not an astroturfer, and I don't personally know any.

Is the polling data that shows most Americans against it artificial? A Sept 1 Rasmussen poll shows it's 53-43 against. I've read others that show something like a 2-1 margin of independents oppose it. It is just astroturfers swaying the results?

I suppose any conservative upswell against it must be artificial, and those who support the plan just know what's best for America.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I suppose any conservative upswell against it must be artificial, and those who support the plan just know what's best for America.

No, the upswell in people who are spouting off and have no idea what they are talking about is an artificial movement.

If you want to be against something at least understand what you are against.

I'm going to use a Prop8 analogy again - one of my former marketing managers is LDS, hard core "yes on 8". Except instead of touting "the bible says man should not lay with man, the bible says it's wrong blah blah blah" that most of the "yesers" were saying he was against it because he was against the term marriage being used for anyone not married in a church. He agreed that same-sex couples should get the same rights but this wasn't the way to do it and wanted to see the term "marriage" removed from any joining not preformed in a church.

Or you could compare it to a kid who hates strawberries because mom and/or dad hates them. The kid has never had them but they are gross and disgusting because that's what mom and dad say.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

CP,

I have REPEATEDLY stated that I would be happy to watch the speech with my kids.

Please explain to me the difference between you reading the transcript and discussing it with your kid after school and you watching it with your child in the room.

Originally Posted by scaeagles

You know what....I can accept that. I take it back.

I disagree that they are astroturf, but I do believe you are correct in your interpretation.

Here's the thing - you heard that Pelosi called the protestors Nazis. You believed it and repeated it. It wasn't true. By the time you realized it and "took it back", you may have told other people, and they told other people. This is exactly how all this crap works. This is what "astroturf" is. It's the outrage created when misinformation is repeated. Yes, people are angry and the polls show it. But why? Because someone says "death panels", other people repeat it, and then the first person "retracts" but it's too late. It's outrage based on phony concepts.

[Strangler Lewis]

I will agree there are astroturfers on both sides. I will happily invite anyone who got/gets excited and felt better about themselves because they were/are for Obama and the people who got/get excited and felt better about themselves because they were/are against Obama to join hands and walk into the sea.