The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[scaeagles]

I don't know much about it, but have you considered some form of catastrophic health insurance? That could lead to some debt if something big happens, but I would gather that is the biggest concern.

Here is a web page I found rather quickly that might help point you to something that you could use.

[BarTopDancer]

I have a catastrophic policy that my parents are graciously paying for until I got a job/insurance kicked in.

It doesn't cover doctors visits, lab fees or anything that isn't remotely catastrophic. Which means preventative care isn't covered and OOP doctors visits + lab fees aren't cheap.

Sure if Betty's family can afford the $600 a month for COBRA then it seems that they could afford a cheaper catastrophic policy but whose to say they could afford the preventative care visits that would prevent a lot of the catastrophic issues?

Leo - put yourself in other people's shoes. Life circumstances now put you in a situation where neither your job nor your wife's job provides medical insurance. What are you going to do? Would you have laid out the tens of thousands of dollars for your daughters knee surgery?

Your life circumstances, that give you the perspective you have can change at any time. Sure, now you have a nice emergency fund but what would you do when that ran out? Start thinking outside your little world, because you never know when you may find yourself in a completely different one.

[scaeagles]

I have been there. I had NO medical insurance as a kid (my family was very lower middle class). My mom died of lupus and nothing about it was covered. She had a brain tumor at the start of the process in 1970, and my dad was still paying for the surgery while I was in highschool. It did, along with some poor decision making processes by my dad, end up in him declaring bankruptcy.

As a kid, we had one TV. One beat up car. Decent house we rented. I can only remember getting one birthday present my entire life as a kid. I had to have a job starting in HS to purchase anything I needed that wasn't food, including clothes. I had to pay for all college expenses that weren't covered by a scholarship I got.

You know what? I survived. I didn't have much of anything material. I have experienced death, not poverty, but a lack of meterial possessions, and most of that came from paying for my mom's health care.

So please, get off your pious high horse and quit making assumptions about me that I don't know what it's like.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

So please, get off your pious high horse and quit making assumptions about me that I don't know what it's like.

Well the tone of all your posts sure as heck implies that you don't have a clue.

And your rant didn't answer my question. What would you do now if you lost your insurance and couldn't afford COBRA.

[Strangler Lewis]

I think Scaeagles' experience illustrates why everyone needs to be covered. If his father could have put more money into his education or into the economy, I submit that would have been a better outcome than paying it to a doctor or, perhaps more aptly, paying interest to a bank. While I don't think that government can or should create a perfectly level playing field, I think we can try to eradicate differences based on things we have no control over such as race, gender and health.

[scaeagles]

Thanks for making assumptions about me, BTD. I guess since I don't sound like you in what I think I must not have any sort of clue at all!

I would do EXACTLY what I had to do. I would sell what I could to afford it. I could sell my home, be rid of my mortgage, and rent an apartment a small apartment if necessary. Cancel my cell phones. Cancel cable and internet. How many people (and i really don't know) who don't have insurance have those things but are complaining that they can't afford insurance? It's an issue of priorities.

Should I have to, I would take on debt, much like my dad did. I would ask relatives to assist. Anything I needed to do.

Would I have paid for the knee surgery my daughter needed? Absolutely. I had to pay for a pretty high percentage of it the way my insurance is set up anyway (mine is not catastrophic but is set up in more that way with higher copays but a lower out of pocket maximum, etc).

All of this being said...would I want to have to do any of that? No. I do consider myself fortunate to have a job and insurance.

Hopefully that has answered your question. Sorry my "rant" about you presumptions of me didn't quite cut it the first time. "Oh, he's against that? He must not have any idea what it's like to be on the other side!". Sheesh.

To be against this plan does not mean I am against any sort of reform. It means I am against this plan.

[JWBear]

That's fine and dandy, Leo, if you have a house or other resources. Not everyone is that lucky.

Even if you pay for insurance you have no guarantee that they will pay for your medical condition. There are a lot of people who have insurance, get sick, and are denied by their insurance company; and then we see them in our office.

What would you say to the parents of a child who was born with a congenital heart defect, but whose surgery to correct the defect was denied by the insurance company because it was a "pre-existing condition"? "Sorry, it's your problem, not mine." or "Sorry, you need to choose between losing your child and impoverishing yourselves because your insurance company needs to maximize profits in order to keep the investers happy."

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I would ask relatives to assist.

Which means that you don't see it as an absolute moral imperative for each individual or each family to soldier on alone. I know you would see nothing wrong with neighbors or church groups rallying to assist the only people on the block whose house burned down in a wildfire. It's a way of spreading the burden, much as insurance companies spread the risk. To my mind whether that burden is spread on the small scale among neighbors or on the large scale as an act of government makes little difference as to the rightness of the enterprise.

[€uroMeinke]

I think the real interesting moral question here is if you break the law for health care for a loved one - steal, prostitute yourself, kill a stranger, etc. Health seems like one of those survival imperatives - you do what you need to do for someone you love consequences be damned.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Thanks for making assumptions about me, BTD. I guess since I don't sound like you in what I think I must not have any sort of clue at all!

When what's out there is "people need to be responsible for themselves" and "it's not my responsibility to pay for others who are less fortunate" it reeks of the rich get richer and poor get poorer mentality that I am sick of.

If you are against this plan but not overall reform then what do you suggest?

Not everyone has possessions to sell or family to rely on.