The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux) - Page 505

Gn2Dlnd · 09-21-2009, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

To claim that opposition to his agenda is largely racially motivated is ignorant.

Correct. It's opposition to him that's racially motivated. These yahoos at the health care townhalls are practically brandishing torches and pitchforks. Who the hell carries a gun strapped to their leg to a townhall meeting? Crazy racists, that's who.

Our first Gay president will get the same treatment, tenfold.

Strangler Lewis · 09-21-2009, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

What a crock. There are racists, certainly. To claim that opposition to his agenda is largely racially motivated is ignorant.

Even Obama has said he does not believe the opposition is racially motivated. Good for him.

As somebody said during the campaign, Obama is forced to be the least aggrieved black man in America. Thus, regardless of what he might think, he can't call a spade-caller a spade-caller.

alphabassettgrrl · 09-21-2009, 01:41 PM

Cricket, that's awesome. I agree with him that the media hypes things that shouldn't be hyped. They want hysteria, panic, fear. At the very least they want shock.

I don't want shocking or panicking from my news. I want to know what's going on- I'll panic if I deem it worthy of panic. Don't tell me I ought to panic.

scaeagles · 09-21-2009, 01:42 PM

Gn2 - Aren't those being equated, though? Opposition to the agenda is opposition to Obama himself. That's how I read many of the portrayals of the current political climate.

scaeagles · 09-21-2009, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strangler Lewis

As somebody said during the campaign, Obama is forced to be the least aggrieved black man in America. Thus, regardless of what he might think, he can't call a spade-caller a spade-caller.

So it's OK for him to lie about it because of political perception?

I'm not naive and I know that this is what politics is. It just seems as if you are admitting Obama is a liar because he can't tell the truth about it because of political perception.

Alex · 09-21-2009, 02:06 PM

I honestly don't know if I believe Obama. I think it is likely he recognizes what I said earlier in that regardless of how much racism is involved in the vocal protest, except for instances where it can quite explicitly be exposed as racist it is politically inapt to say so.

For example, most of those people opposing Obama's policy proposals would have even if they'd been proposed by a boring middle-aged white guy. But maybe it is latent racism that takes many people's opposition and bumps it up to anger that gets them out to rallies and town halls, etc.

It is not false to say racism is contributing significantly to the atmosphere. However, it does no good to say so since the individual acts of racism generally can't be identified and it is a measurement of the group average and nobody believes it applies to them (and it won't apply to a lot of people). So, to use a phrase of trade, everybody has plausible deniability ("I'm sure some people are racist but surely not me!").

And, from one perspective it is a sign of improvement that, in general, we've advanced to passive racism of a nature that I suspect is unrecognized in even the people altered by it. Moving to intangible is good, and I'd say it is intangible because they (also subconsciously) recognize that overt is not at all acceptable. And intangible is a lot harder to pass on to the children.

wendybeth · 09-21-2009, 02:07 PM

He's rising above it and trying to not add fuel to the conflagration. He knew the level of racism out there- he's lived his life dealing with it. I also think he knew that many of us did not realize how pervasive it is. I'd like to see any President handle the crap he's had to handle, not to mention handle it with the grace that he has, but I think the last time the vitriol was this bad was probably when Lincoln was in office.

Alex · 09-21-2009, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I'm not naive and I know that this is what politics is. It just seems as if you are admitting Obama is a liar because he can't tell the truth about it because of political perception.

Yes. It is a lie (if my suspicion is correct, just because I think he is motivated by X doesn't mean I'm right; though I always am). But it is both a politic and a political lie.

In the same category as how you answer "do these pants make me look fat?".

BarTopDancer · 09-21-2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

No such luck according to the guy at the cig store I was just at, that got nixed. I bought his last carton of specials. At the rate I smoke 'em, combined with the handful of partial packs I have in random places at home, that should last me a while.

Oh crap. I better go pick up a pack or two.. if I can get lucky enough to find them.

scaeagles · 09-21-2009, 02:22 PM

I don't know, WB.....it seemed pretty vitriolic when Bush was accused of being behind the 9/11 attacks as justification for war. It seemed pretty vitriolic when Gore said the Bush betrayed our country. It seemed pretty vitriolic when Reagan was accused of wanting to starve poor people. There's all sorts of vitriol out there and it always seems worse when it it pointed at the person you find yourself supporting.

09-21-2009, 01:41 PM	#5043
alphabassettgrrl Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,978	Cricket, that's awesome. I agree with him that the media hypes things that shouldn't be hyped. They want hysteria, panic, fear. At the very least they want shock. I don't want shocking or panicking from my news. I want to know what's going on- I'll panic if I deem it worthy of panic. Don't tell me I ought to panic. __________________ Why cycling? Anything [sport] that had to do with a ball, I wasn't very good at. -Lance Armstrong
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09-21-2009, 01:42 PM	#5044
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	Gn2 - Aren't those being equated, though? Opposition to the agenda is opposition to Obama himself. That's how I read many of the portrayals of the current political climate.
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09-21-2009, 02:06 PM	#5046
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	I honestly don't know if I believe Obama. I think it is likely he recognizes what I said earlier in that regardless of how much racism is involved in the vocal protest, except for instances where it can quite explicitly be exposed as racist it is politically inapt to say so. For example, most of those people opposing Obama's policy proposals would have even if they'd been proposed by a boring middle-aged white guy. But maybe it is latent racism that takes many people's opposition and bumps it up to anger that gets them out to rallies and town halls, etc. It is not false to say racism is contributing significantly to the atmosphere. However, it does no good to say so since the individual acts of racism generally can't be identified and it is a measurement of the group average and nobody believes it applies to them (and it won't apply to a lot of people). So, to use a phrase of trade, everybody has plausible deniability ("I'm sure some people are racist but surely not me!"). And, from one perspective it is a sign of improvement that, in general, we've advanced to passive racism of a nature that I suspect is unrecognized in even the people altered by it. Moving to intangible is good, and I'd say it is intangible because they (also subconsciously) recognize that overt is not at all acceptable. And intangible is a lot harder to pass on to the children.
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09-21-2009, 02:07 PM	#5047
wendybeth Nevermind Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,847	He's rising above it and trying to not add fuel to the conflagration. He knew the level of racism out there- he's lived his life dealing with it. I also think he knew that many of us did not realize how pervasive it is. I'd like to see any President handle the crap he's had to handle, not to mention handle it with the grace that he has, but I think the last time the vitriol was this bad was probably when Lincoln was in office. __________________
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09-21-2009, 02:22 PM	#5050
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	I don't know, WB.....it seemed pretty vitriolic when Bush was accused of being behind the 9/11 attacks as justification for war. It seemed pretty vitriolic when Gore said the Bush betrayed our country. It seemed pretty vitriolic when Reagan was accused of wanting to starve poor people. There's all sorts of vitriol out there and it always seems worse when it it pointed at the person you find yourself supporting.
	Submit to Quotes