Why Can't Disney be "Cool?"

[Ghoulish Delight]

Yes, in Japan it goes beyond the cuteness. But it's the acceptance of cuteness in mainstream adult culture that allows it to, imo. First and foremost, in the minds of most Americans people, Disney=cartoons=cutesy=chidlish=instantly uncool. So even if a product with the Disney name on it isn't itself a kiddie product, it has that "stigma". In Japan, that's not a stigma, so they are free to use the brand in other ways and more adult markets.

[Not Afraid]

And remember the spotting of the "underutilized" characters in Japan? The "Coco Girls" were Daisy, Minnie and....Claribell! Of course, I went just a BIT nuts over a number of Three Little Pigs and Big Bad Wolf merchandise. Then there is Clarice in the Rockin' show (MP had to tell me who that even was! I thought it was Dale in drag.) How about the Ugly Duckling and Hiawatha children's merch?

They really work it in Japan and keep the variety high. It was VERY exciting.

Of course, we got some comments about our own homegrown Disney swag that we were sporting. One day, we had a scarf from DLRP, a shirt from WDW, a Shag Tiki shirt, a DL shirt and a Mickey shirt- plus the watches.

[mousepod]

While I agree that the openmindedness of the Japanese is helped by the fact that things like Manga and animen are absolutely mainstream (I'm going to avoid the term "cute", because I don't think that's how they see it) - I feel that Disney in the US perpetuates the "childish" and "cutesy" image itself, by its own narrow marketing strategies. Disney wasn't always this way, y'know. To quote Funkadelic: "If you don't like the effect, don't produce the cause."

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Disney=cartoons=cutesy=chidlish=instantly uncool.

I agree this equation is likely at work in the US - but looking at the links, it kind of illuminates what's different in Japan.

First off the cartoon to childish linkage isn't there. Thank manga (and Hentai) for that. You know once upon a time (think Ub Iwerks) cartoons were adult pre-feature entertainment, somehow in our culture this evolved into a "kids only" medium. Perhaps Shrek and the works of Pixar are starting to broaden that pidgeon hole here, but we've a long way to go.

But I also have to agree with surfinmuse, outside the US, people are given alot more liberties with the Disney Cannon - which yields some rather interesting and provocative work that we rarely see at home.

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by mousepod

To quote Funkadelic: "If you don't like the effect, don't produce the cause."

Right on.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

First off the cartoon to childish linkage isn't there.

That's what GD was saying.

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

That's what GD was saying.

Perhaps, but I find this component worth contemplating further. Is Disney, by virtue of being "Disney" condmended to eternal uncoolness in the American market? How is it that cartoons became the exclusive medium of children here? Is that the bridge that has to be gapped in order to make Disney Cool? Is Disney music necessarily "cartoonish?" Must Disney create or aquire other brands (i.e. Touchstone, Buena Vista, MiraMax, ESPN, etc.) in order to achieve a sort of Trojan Horse coolness?

I don't dispute GDs claims, but I think there's far more to explore here than statements of assumed fact.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Is it comdemned forever? I don't know. But I think that is exactly the gap the needs to be bridged, and it's a wide gap. It may very well have been their own doing, but it's there none-the-less.

A perfect illustration of the difficulty they face is the Curse of the Black Pearl. Do you remember how much flack they got for that? Why? Because it was PG-13 and had the Disney name. Unheard of! Scandalous! By steadfastly adhering to the "family" image, it seems they've dug themselves a massive hole. It's such a battle to do anything with the Disney name on it in America that isn't for "families" (which, these days, means dumbed down for kids).

Back to Japan for a moment, I don't know if it's manga we have to thank for cartoons not being purely a children's domain, or the other way around. No, not everything Disney there is cartoony and cutesy, nor is everything that's animated cute. However, even in many of the most serious of animes, you'll see elemnts of "kawaii". And I would use the word cute. But, cute does not equate to childish in Japan, so it's not a big deal. So there's no issue going back and forth across that line, because there is no line.

[mousepod]

I think the point that GD makes about "mainstream adult culture" is correct. However, I think that Disney has a major hand in perpetuating the "Disney=cartoons=cutesy=chidlish=instantly uncool" equation in the minds of most American people. By marketing directly to kids and kids only for years, Disney has created an image for itself that most of us adult Disney fans have come to resent to a certain degree. Look at the various trailers for Nightmare Before Christmas - the film was originally slated to be a Disney release, but was switched to Touchstone before the release date by a studio with cold feet who had no idea how to market the darn thing. For several years, all of the cool NBC toys were Japanese imports. Once Disney realized what they had on their hands, Hot Topic, New Orleans Square and even the Haunted Mansion became prime locations for Disney to exploit a very hip movie.

The merchandising/licensing arm of Disney does understand that the brand has a certain hip cache - Fred Segal in Santa Monica has been a place to buy some upscale Disney stuff for the past couple of years - but it doesn't seem able to make the leap into the mainstream. It's almost as if marketing and merchandising are working against each other.

I consider myself a Disney fan who possesses a modicum of coolness - I'd like to see an effort on Disney's part to reach out to me and not just to the kiddies and tweens. I don't expect to see the Bossa Nova CD getting the same push as the Disneymania series, I'd just like to see some more adventurous marketing (like the cool "Chanson a la Mode" CD that € mentioned or the "DJ Digs Main Street Electrical Parade" CD I picked up last week - or the cool Mickey baseball cap, or the embroidered Minnie T-shirt, or well, you get the picture).

Maybe it's too much to hope for from the company that would rather show Raven reruns on the Disney Channel than acknowledge its amazing television heritage, but maybe, one day, the hipness that draws us all to the parks will spill over into real life once again.

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by mousepod

I think that Disney has a major hand in perpetuating the "Disney=cartoons=cutesy=chidlish=instantly uncool" equation in the minds of most American people.

I definately agree with this. I guess I was just amazed that this doesn't seem to be the case in Japan, there was just so much cool Disney stuff there. It seems a shame that you have to travel to other continents to get it. I suppose I should take heart in knowing that at least it's being produced somewhere.