The Afghanistan War: Absurdity or Necessity?

[Alex]

No, can't keep it out forever. No more than winning World War II kept Nazi's out of Germany.

I do think it is possible to establish an infrastructure that would make it very difficult for the Taliban to achieve significant power again.

Ignoring the question of Al Qaeda (and I think I've been pretty consistent that "war" against Al Qaeda is a pretty meaningless concept), having displaced the Taliban from their position of power, accepting that their return to power would be a human rights catastrophe, what responsibility do we have to do our best to prevent that happening before leaving?

As Colin Powell said it, "you break it you buy it." Regardless of how justified the initial war was, and how successfully accomplished the initial goals have been I'd argue we have a responsibility to not say "ok, Taliban, it's all yours so long as you don't let Al Qaeda come back; enjoy the complete dehumanization of half your population!"

Would a return to Afghanistant 1999 be acceptable if we were in a direct position to try and prevent it?

To me? For the most part yes, even with the recognition that any equilibrium achieved is still going to be reasonably far from what we consider acceptable for the United States, so long as there seems to be a serious native desire for it as well.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by Alex

Ignoring the question of Al Qaeda (and I think I've been pretty consistent that "war" against Al Qaeda is a pretty meaningless concept), having displaced the Taliban from their position of power, accepting that their return to power would be a human rights catastrophe, what responsibility do we have to do our best to prevent that happening before leaving?

As Colin Powell said it, "you break it you buy it." Regardless of how justified the initial war was, and how successfully accomplished the initial goals have been I'd argue we have a responsibility to not say "ok, Taliban, it's all yours so long as you don't let Al Qaeda come back; enjoy the complete dehumanization of half your population!"

But are we fighting for human rights or fighting against terrorism?

I have a problem with how women are treated in a lot of the Middle Eastern countries. But I have an even bigger issue with us trying to implement our system of leadership all over the world (without being asked to help).

Just because it's right for us, and how we think it's how the world should work doesn't mean it's right for the world and it's not our place to go "oh, we don't like how you treat your [demographic] so we're going to go to war with you until you change your ways.

The goals of this war (and Iraq) have been lost. They both need to be redefined, and worked towards. Regardless, I don't think we should be pulling out of either place without some sort of stable government in place.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

But are we fighting for human rights or fighting against terrorism?

I would argue we have shifted, and for better reasons that our justifications shifted in Iraq (which was mainly to cover the fact that the initial justifications proved unfounded).

We were justified in invading Afghanistan because its government was openly harboring an organization that very violently attacked our country and showed no inclination towards changing that.

I agree that we've mostly destroyed Al Qaeda as a threat based in Afghanistan. I am willing to concede that if we leave now they are unlikely to quickly regain the position they had there before (if nothing else the Taliban knows what that would eventually mean).

I have a problem with how women are treated in a lot of the Middle Eastern countries. But I have an even bigger issue with us trying to implement our system of leadership all over the world (without being asked to help).

I do too. And if it were 1999 I would not advocate invading Afghanistan simply to displace the Taliban because of the way it treats women or anything else.

However, that's not the situation we face. The situation we now face is that our quick departure has a high probability of returning Afghanistan to 1999. Our position of responsibility is different now than it was then.

And in terms of asking for our help I'm pretty sure the general population is not opposed to our presence in the way that the average Iraqi was to our presence there. The general population does not want the Taliban to return power.

The goals of this war (and Iraq) have been lost.

The argument being made here is that the original goals of the war in Afghanistan have been achieved. And I mostly agree with that position. I just think we've incurred new responsibilities towards the region along the way.