The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux) - Page 557

Alex · 01-29-2010, 07:33 PM

Yeah, I know. That's why this is one view that I generally don't talk about much since it really sucks that so many of the people who would agree with me do so for such thoroughly abhorrent reasons.

€uroMeinke · 02-01-2010, 08:27 PM

So the whole abandoning the moon thing find me rather disappointed in Obama.I know the program was underfunded to begin with, we'd been there before, etc. But it just makes me think there is nothing visionary about this presidency. I mean health care was a dud, nothing's changed in the Middle East, the economy still sucks. I mean if we're not going to do anything cool like go to the Moon,or to Mars, what's the point?

My boyhood Astronaut dreams die hard.

Moonliner · 02-01-2010, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

So the whole abandoning the moon thing find me rather disappointed in Obama.I know the program was underfunded to begin with, we'd been there before, etc. But it just makes me think there is nothing visionary about this presidency. I mean health care was a dud, nothing's changed in the Middle East, the economy still sucks. I mean if we're not going to do anything cool like go to the Moon,or to Mars, what's the point?

My boyhood Astronaut dreams die hard.

It may not be quite as bad as you think. The Constellation Program was a disaster we are better off without and NASA is still in the space business. In fact they are getting a budget increase with a renewed focus on what NASA was supposed to do in the first place. Research. Add in support for private spaced based ventures and we could all be sipping Mojitos in low earth orbit sooner than you think.

€uroMeinke · 02-01-2010, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonliner

It may not be quite as bad as you think. The Constellation Program was a disaster we are better off without and NASA is still in the space business. In fact they are getting a budget increase with a renewed focus on what NASA was supposed to do in the first place. Research. Add in support for private spaced based ventures and we could all be sipping Mojitos in low earth orbit sooner than you think.

I don't know - if these really was "better" then tell us what the "wow" is, what are all these extra "science funds" going to buy us? Pragmatic sure, inspiring? not a bit.

Alex · 02-01-2010, 11:00 PM

I'm much more wowed by science than men in space so I'll take it.

Ghoulish Delight · 02-01-2010, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

...nothing's changed in the Middle East...

Tangeting to this for a moment, my dad had an interesting thought on the subject. We have massive unemployment right now. If we were to pull most of the troops out of the Middle East, tens of thousands of which are not full time military (National Guard) who would then be entering the workforce. Not to mention the massive number of civilian jobs that exist to support a couple hundred thousand troops deployed over seas.

Not the most feel-good justification for continuing operations, but he's got a point. Could definitely have been a not-insignificant blip in whatever hope for recovery there is.

€uroMeinke · 02-01-2010, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

I'm much more wowed by science than men in space so I'll take it.

The term alone does nothing for me - tell me what cool science you plan to do - Transporter beams? Wayback machines? At least Reagen had Star Wars

CoasterMatt · 02-01-2010, 11:39 PM

I want a machine that can launch a fish from the bottom of the ocean, to the top of Mt. Everest - that would be an AWESOME X-prize contest. Thank you, and goodnight.

scaeagles · 02-02-2010, 08:37 AM

I admit to be genuinely torn by this.

Being that the private man spaced flight stuff is picking up, I can envision that manned space flight doesn't stop. I suppose I view this as something akin to the public education system....not constitutionally mandated in the least, but everyone agrees that it is better that we have it.

How many thousands of inventions and discoveries came from the push to put men on the moon, or even into orbit? I couldn't even begin to quantify them.

This will undoubtedly lead to tens of thousands of lost jobs (some reports says hundreds of thousands), so it seems strange to me that this is cut leading to job loss, but Obama wants 100 billion for job programs. Why not keep those people employed where they are? Have our scientists and engineers laid off, but pay for them to be retrained as a burger flipper (hyperbole intended).

We encourage kids through scholarships and grants and whatever to learn math and science and go to university to pursue such fields, but then cut what the government spends on those things.

Innovation will still happen, and I hope that private funding is big enough to make significant scientific advancements. I wonder, though, if those who make investments and expect a return on them will then be treated as pharmaceutical companies when trying to make profits off of their investment in research.

How would the world be different if the Soviets had landed on the moon first? Maybe not much. I don't really know. There is certainly an issue of national pride involved for me. Some things have to be cut, certainly (and the so called spending freeze is laughable, but that's a different subject), and whatever is cut will have the detractors en masse making their objections known.

In terms of a cost-benefit analysis, though, I would have to figure that what has been spent on space exploration, specifically manned space flight, would weigh heavily on the benefit side.

scaeagles · 02-02-2010, 08:42 AM

On a different subject, with Iran saber rattling and proclaiming a blow to the west on Feb 11, any predictions? I've read some theorizing about an attack on Israel, but I doubt that, as that would result in war since Ahmadenijad is talking it up.

Personally, and I'm probably way off, I believe that this will be the date that Iran declares it has successfully manufactured a nuclear weapon.

01-29-2010, 07:33 PM	#5561
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	Yeah, I know. That's why this is one view that I generally don't talk about much since it really sucks that so many of the people who would agree with me do so for such thoroughly abhorrent reasons.
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02-01-2010, 08:27 PM	#5562
€uroMeinke L'Hédoniste Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: A.S.C.O.T. Posts: 8,671	So the whole abandoning the moon thing find me rather disappointed in Obama.I know the program was underfunded to begin with, we'd been there before, etc. But it just makes me think there is nothing visionary about this presidency. I mean health care was a dud, nothing's changed in the Middle East, the economy still sucks. I mean if we're not going to do anything cool like go to the Moon,or to Mars, what's the point? My boyhood Astronaut dreams die hard. __________________ I would believe only in a God that knows how to Dance. Friedrich Nietzsche
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02-01-2010, 11:00 PM	#5565
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	I'm much more wowed by science than men in space so I'll take it.
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02-01-2010, 11:39 PM	#5568
CoasterMatt BRAAAAAAAINS! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: One Step Beyond... Posts: 8,802	I want a machine that can launch a fish from the bottom of the ocean, to the top of Mt. Everest - that would be an AWESOME X-prize contest. Thank you, and goodnight. __________________ Do you like my photography? Visit photosbymatt.tumblr.com to purchase prints!
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02-02-2010, 08:37 AM	#5569
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	I admit to be genuinely torn by this. Being that the private man spaced flight stuff is picking up, I can envision that manned space flight doesn't stop. I suppose I view this as something akin to the public education system....not constitutionally mandated in the least, but everyone agrees that it is better that we have it. How many thousands of inventions and discoveries came from the push to put men on the moon, or even into orbit? I couldn't even begin to quantify them. This will undoubtedly lead to tens of thousands of lost jobs (some reports says hundreds of thousands), so it seems strange to me that this is cut leading to job loss, but Obama wants 100 billion for job programs. Why not keep those people employed where they are? Have our scientists and engineers laid off, but pay for them to be retrained as a burger flipper (hyperbole intended). We encourage kids through scholarships and grants and whatever to learn math and science and go to university to pursue such fields, but then cut what the government spends on those things. Innovation will still happen, and I hope that private funding is big enough to make significant scientific advancements. I wonder, though, if those who make investments and expect a return on them will then be treated as pharmaceutical companies when trying to make profits off of their investment in research. How would the world be different if the Soviets had landed on the moon first? Maybe not much. I don't really know. There is certainly an issue of national pride involved for me. Some things have to be cut, certainly (and the so called spending freeze is laughable, but that's a different subject), and whatever is cut will have the detractors en masse making their objections known. In terms of a cost-benefit analysis, though, I would have to figure that what has been spent on space exploration, specifically manned space flight, would weigh heavily on the benefit side.
	Submit to Quotes

02-02-2010, 08:42 AM	#5570
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	On a different subject, with Iran saber rattling and proclaiming a blow to the west on Feb 11, any predictions? I've read some theorizing about an attack on Israel, but I doubt that, as that would result in war since Ahmadenijad is talking it up. Personally, and I'm probably way off, I believe that this will be the date that Iran declares it has successfully manufactured a nuclear weapon.
	Submit to Quotes