Daily Kos/Research 2000 Poll of Self-Identified Republicans - Page 2

Alex · 02-04-2010, 01:05 PM

As for whether the survey is a trap, maybe. But it is a relatively easy one to avoid if one wishes. If given the access I would ask every candidate for high office I would ask these three questions:

1. Do you believe the world is less than 8,000 years old?
2. Do you believe your personal religious beliefs provide a rational basis for you to impose laws on others.
3. Do you believe any of the following are innocent of murder? OJ Simpson, the Baretta guy, Phil Specter.

Sure, those questions are designed to identify idiots. But it isn't my fault if they answer in such a way to self identify as idiots.

If the questions in the survey are ridiculous (and I'm sure that two years ago a similar questionnaire would, and probably did, show equal idiocy by Democrats) then wouldn't the ideal resolution be that very few people gave ridiculous answers? Is it not ridiculous that in any population of people 58% of people are not sure or believe that Obama was not born in the United States. Is it not ridiculous that in any population 73% of people would say that homosexuals should be barred from teaching in public schools? That 31% still believe contraceptives should be illegal.

The group did show they were able to avoid non-ridiculous positions. Only 4% think women should not work outside the home.

So sure, the touting of the results is tilted to make Republicans look as ridiculous as possible but surely they were met halfway in the actual responses?

Strangler Lewis · 02-04-2010, 01:11 PM

To those of you who answered "yes" to question three, which of the above interpretations of the question are you ascribing to?

In chemistry class, if someone is asked, "How do you make salt?" should they get full credit for answering "Wait for God to do it."

SzczerbiakManiac · 02-04-2010, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

No, not sure, yes, no, no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

The * on #2 is because that is a two part question. One can be a racist without hating the race in question.

Okay, I'll bite.
sleepyjeff: Are you not sure Obama is a racist, a hater of Whites, or both?
scaeagles: Do you think Obama is a racist? Do you think he hates White people?
Both: If yes to any of those, on what do you base your opinion?

sleepyjeff · 02-04-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SzczerbiakManiac

Okay, I'll bite.
sleepyjeff: Are you not sure Obama is a racist, a hater of Whites, or both?
scaeagles: Do you think Obama is a racist? Do you think he hates White people?
Both: If yes to any of those, on what do you base your opinion?

I am not sure bc for the longest time he publicly stated that his mentor was a man that I know is a racist who hates Whites.....but on the other hand Obama has strongly stated he parts with this man when it comes to racial views...so, I really don't know.

Let me turn it around on you and ask how you know he's not a racist? There's really no way you can know unless you are a close friend or family member to the President(and even then, maybe not).

-Not Sure- is really the only answer when you think about it.

Alex · 02-04-2010, 02:06 PM

How do you know there isn't a leprechaun behind you?

SzczerbiakManiac · 02-04-2010, 02:18 PM

I pretty much assume someone isn't a racist until evidence is presented to me that they are.

I'm also "not sure" the Sun will rise in the East tomorrow morning.

sleepyjeff · 02-04-2010, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strangler Lewis

To those of you who answered "yes" to question three, which of the above interpretations of the question are you ascribing to?

In chemistry class, if someone is asked, "How do you make salt?" should they get full credit for answering "Wait for God to do it."

Blame the pollster for not making that question clear(which they did on purpose in order to get more yes's I imagine).

If the pollster was being honest and was trully trying to find out how many Repuoblicans want Creationism taught over Evolution then they should have asked it that way.

btw. I personally do believe in Evolution but think the book of Genesis is still an important part of our heritage(history, literature, etc) and should be taught in that format.

sleepyjeff · 02-04-2010, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

How do you know there isn't a leprechaun behind you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SzczerbiakManiac

I pretty much assume someone isn't a racist until evidence is presented to me that they are.

I'm also "not sure" the Sun will rise in the East tomorrow morning.

No, I am not asking you to prove a negative......the evidence is already there. Obama was a long time follower of a man who was a screaming hater of Whites(literally).

He took his two young daughters to see this lunatic every(or near every) Sunday......who would subject their own children to racist rhetoric unless they sympathized with that rhetoric?

And it was only when Obama was slipping in the polls that he came out against him...how convenient

.........so the question remains, how do you know he's not a racist?

He says he's not vs actions that suggest otherwise.

flippyshark · 02-04-2010, 03:23 PM

Sorry, sleepyjeff, but, as insane as Reverend Wright's sermons (at least as excerpted in the media) may be, they aren't racist. Essentially, he rails on the government, which in his eyes has not atoned for the evils of slavery and the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. His message in the most famous sermon clip was that we don't have God's favor because we haven't acknowledged these crimes in our own past. His use of the phrase "God Damn America" was intended to sound shocking and it did. But, not a word about white people being inherently evil or inferior. (Yes, it's implicit that those bad things were done by the white people in charge, which is hard to deny.) Not a rational or useful view to my mind, but not "hate whitey" talk either. It's hardly any different than Jerry Falwell's famous on-air contention that God had lifted his hand of protection from us because of the ACLU and feminists and so on. (actually, Falwell's strikes me as miles more stupid. At least slavery really is factually an atrocity - so are the mass bombings of civilians in Japan, to my mind, though I know some would argue that those actions prevented more deaths than they caused - that's another conversation.)

Barack Obama was born into a world where black Americans did not yet have equal rights. Of course the political discourse in the black community still carries that baggage, with resentments, mistrust and suspicions that make perfect sense to the people who were until so recently second-class citizens. Of course sermons in black churches reflect this. It would be really surprising if they didn't.

It has never been shown that Obama attended this particular sermon, but it seems reasonable to guess that he heard plenty of this sort of "evil government" rhetoric in church and in his community. So did I. My father gave it to me every day, just from a white Evangelical point of view. He's not a racist either, by the way. And he loves America, passionately. But he thinks the government is evil to this day. (In his mind, the great atrocity is legalized abortion.) He's not crazy. He has strong beliefs that offend some other citizens. I sat through tons of church services loaded with this kind of talk.

I read Obama's memoir well before he won the nomination, and he talks plenty about the various ideas about race he encountered growing up. It sounds as though he filtered it all and gave it rational consideration, just like I did to all the ugly and stupid things I was told day in and day out. If I remember correctly, he credited Pastor Wright with enlightening him about civil rights ideas we do not now find at all controversial. Wright is certainly a provocateur, but racist? I'm not convinced. (And no, I don't count his joke about how white people can't keep rhythm on the off beat - that's not racist, it's too often sadly true - and would be perfectly acceptable if it was pointed out by a black comic.)

Even if it could be shown that Wright really thinks whites are devils, it doesn't prove a thing about Obama. It's a really old talking point that didn't fly during the presidential campaign and doesn't make any sense now.

flippyshark · 02-04-2010, 03:33 PM

To your point about Obama's eventual parting of ways with Wright, that was an uncomfortable situation that I agree looked bad for Barack. Immediately after the YouTube frenzy over the big bad sermon, Barack tried to downplay the whole thing by comparing Wright to the sort of crazy uncle that every family has. And indeed, when he later made the break complete, it seemed like the politics of convenience because it was.Wright was an important person in Obama's circle, but he was also an embarrassment, so there was really no way that could ever have ended well. It seems to me that Obama put off an uncomfortable situation until it was no longer avoidable. (a trait it could be argued he still displays) I don't know what a perfect handling of this situation would have looked like. If I ever run for office, which will never happen, there are people in my circle who might make me look bad by association - I know a handful of radicals who mean business, at least one of whom is in jail - we're all linked to some highly interesting people. Heck, look at this very community we are having this conversation in right now!

02-04-2010, 01:05 PM	#11
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	As for whether the survey is a trap, maybe. But it is a relatively easy one to avoid if one wishes. If given the access I would ask every candidate for high office I would ask these three questions: 1. Do you believe the world is less than 8,000 years old? 2. Do you believe your personal religious beliefs provide a rational basis for you to impose laws on others. 3. Do you believe any of the following are innocent of murder? OJ Simpson, the Baretta guy, Phil Specter. Sure, those questions are designed to identify idiots. But it isn't my fault if they answer in such a way to self identify as idiots. If the questions in the survey are ridiculous (and I'm sure that two years ago a similar questionnaire would, and probably did, show equal idiocy by Democrats) then wouldn't the ideal resolution be that very few people gave ridiculous answers? Is it not ridiculous that in any population of people 58% of people are not sure or believe that Obama was not born in the United States. Is it not ridiculous that in any population 73% of people would say that homosexuals should be barred from teaching in public schools? That 31% still believe contraceptives should be illegal. The group did show they were able to avoid non-ridiculous positions. Only 4% think women should not work outside the home. So sure, the touting of the results is tilted to make Republicans look as ridiculous as possible but surely they were met halfway in the actual responses?
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02-04-2010, 01:11 PM	#12
Strangler Lewis Doing The Job Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: In a state Posts: 3,956	To those of you who answered "yes" to question three, which of the above interpretations of the question are you ascribing to? In chemistry class, if someone is asked, "How do you make salt?" should they get full credit for answering "Wait for God to do it." __________________ Live now-pay later. Diner's Club!
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02-04-2010, 02:06 PM	#15
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	How do you know there isn't a leprechaun behind you?
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02-04-2010, 02:18 PM	#16
SzczerbiakManiac "ZER-bee-ak" Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,409	I pretty much assume someone isn't a racist until evidence is presented to me that they are. I'm also "not sure" the Sun will rise in the East tomorrow morning. __________________
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02-04-2010, 03:23 PM	#19
flippyshark Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,852	Sorry, sleepyjeff, but, as insane as Reverend Wright's sermons (at least as excerpted in the media) may be, they aren't racist. Essentially, he rails on the government, which in his eyes has not atoned for the evils of slavery and the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. His message in the most famous sermon clip was that we don't have God's favor because we haven't acknowledged these crimes in our own past. His use of the phrase "God Damn America" was intended to sound shocking and it did. But, not a word about white people being inherently evil or inferior. (Yes, it's implicit that those bad things were done by the white people in charge, which is hard to deny.) Not a rational or useful view to my mind, but not "hate whitey" talk either. It's hardly any different than Jerry Falwell's famous on-air contention that God had lifted his hand of protection from us because of the ACLU and feminists and so on. (actually, Falwell's strikes me as miles more stupid. At least slavery really is factually an atrocity - so are the mass bombings of civilians in Japan, to my mind, though I know some would argue that those actions prevented more deaths than they caused - that's another conversation.) Barack Obama was born into a world where black Americans did not yet have equal rights. Of course the political discourse in the black community still carries that baggage, with resentments, mistrust and suspicions that make perfect sense to the people who were until so recently second-class citizens. Of course sermons in black churches reflect this. It would be really surprising if they didn't. It has never been shown that Obama attended this particular sermon, but it seems reasonable to guess that he heard plenty of this sort of "evil government" rhetoric in church and in his community. So did I. My father gave it to me every day, just from a white Evangelical point of view. He's not a racist either, by the way. And he loves America, passionately. But he thinks the government is evil to this day. (In his mind, the great atrocity is legalized abortion.) He's not crazy. He has strong beliefs that offend some other citizens. I sat through tons of church services loaded with this kind of talk. I read Obama's memoir well before he won the nomination, and he talks plenty about the various ideas about race he encountered growing up. It sounds as though he filtered it all and gave it rational consideration, just like I did to all the ugly and stupid things I was told day in and day out. If I remember correctly, he credited Pastor Wright with enlightening him about civil rights ideas we do not now find at all controversial. Wright is certainly a provocateur, but racist? I'm not convinced. (And no, I don't count his joke about how white people can't keep rhythm on the off beat - that's not racist, it's too often sadly true - and would be perfectly acceptable if it was pointed out by a black comic.) Even if it could be shown that Wright really thinks whites are devils, it doesn't prove a thing about Obama. It's a really old talking point that didn't fly during the presidential campaign and doesn't make any sense now.
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02-04-2010, 03:33 PM	#20
flippyshark Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,852	To your point about Obama's eventual parting of ways with Wright, that was an uncomfortable situation that I agree looked bad for Barack. Immediately after the YouTube frenzy over the big bad sermon, Barack tried to downplay the whole thing by comparing Wright to the sort of crazy uncle that every family has. And indeed, when he later made the break complete, it seemed like the politics of convenience because it was.Wright was an important person in Obama's circle, but he was also an embarrassment, so there was really no way that could ever have ended well. It seems to me that Obama put off an uncomfortable situation until it was no longer avoidable. (a trait it could be argued he still displays) I don't know what a perfect handling of this situation would have looked like. If I ever run for office, which will never happen, there are people in my circle who might make me look bad by association - I know a handful of radicals who mean business, at least one of whom is in jail - we're all linked to some highly interesting people. Heck, look at this very community we are having this conversation in right now!
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