HCR Passes

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

Requiring insurance to do this and that and the other thing is the reason insurance costs of gotten so out of hand.....

Hardly. A broken prescription medication system, and an insurance model tied tightly to employment are far greater contributors to the cost of insurance.

what ever happened to just letting people purchase what they wanted or needed and not being forced to buy insurance for things they don't want? I am sure that childless couple down the street are thrilled that they have pay into the same pool that covers this

As much as the car-less couple is thrilled that streets are paved, people whose homes have never caught on fire are thrilled that there's a fire department, and people who have never faced an enemy soldier are thrilled we have a well trained military.

And nevermind, that childless couple down the street is already paying, in the form of emergency room care that those without insurance are forced to resort to, and most of the time end up not paying the bulk of the cost. That tab has (rightly) been picked up by the tax payer all this time, and at a premium rate. This begins the process of actually planning for and controlling those costs, making sure fewer people need expensive emergency services, and that money has been collected to cover those that do.

[CoasterMatt]

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Betty

And here I was feeling bad that I was the 3rd person to make the same joke - but whatever if you want to single me out.

I found it different because yours implied I wanted to puke because others might get cared for. The other two were things like "I hope maalox is covered for you tummy". Good natured vs. accusatory.

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Hardly. A broken prescription medication system, and an insurance model tied tightly to employment are far greater contributors to the cost of insurance.

On your later point I would have to agree.

As much as the car-less couple is thrilled that streets are paved, people whose homes have never caught on fire are thrilled that there's a fire department, and people who have never faced an enemy soldier are thrilled we have a well trained military.

Surely you see why your later two examples don't work?

This begins the process of actually planning for and controlling those costs, making sure fewer people need expensive emergency services, and that money has been collected to cover those that do.

I hope your are right...........I really do.

[scaeagles]

Not trying to avoid answering the question about specifics that I object to....I just can't research at present.

I think the biggest contributor to health costs is fear on the part of both patients and doctors. That and convenience.

My wife and I battle constantly about when to take our kids to the doctor. My view is that the body is designed, for the most part, to fix itself. You have a 102 fever? 99.99% of the time you'll be fine in a couple days. My wife sees anything over 100.5 as a mandate to go to the doc. I don't get it. It's fear of "what if something is horribly wrong?". There comes a point in time for the doctor, but routine illness is not that point.

When I was a kid, I had brutal allergies. Just aweful. Every spring I would spend two months of agony, and that was just life. Now there are 1400 different allergy medications that require visits to the doc to try to figure out the best one and then the cost of the medication itself. There are so many medications that do indeed offer a possibility for an increased quality of life....but how much of that should be convered by insurance? Is it absolutely vital to the health and well being of my kid that he have his flonase? I'm glad he does, as it spares him discomfort and frustration, but is it really a medical necessity.

I believe doctors fear being sued to a point of such extremism that any and everything must tested for. I have no proof of this except for anecdotal evidence....my 16 year old, around a year ago, had headaches for about 2 weeks straight. Nothing major. Wife took her to the doc. Blood tests and a freakin' cat scan. WTF?????? I said no way to the cat scan, but the wife was so freaked out and the doctor was so insistent that we did it. Completely fine. I suggested getting her eyes checked first, and sure enough, it was because she needed glasses while in school and reading. Cured that right up. I think tort reform doesn't just lower the costs of lawsuits, but lowers the cost related to the fear of lawsuits.

I have so many other things I could type right now but not the time. Sigh. Hopefully later.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I found it different because yours implied I wanted to puke because others might get cared for. The other two were things like "I hope maalox is covered for you tummy". Good natured vs. accusatory.

You can haz bucket. I think it may be a stoned bucket.

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

Surely you see why your later two examples don't work?

I'm dense. What is the difference between a childless person paying for another child's medical care and the person's whose house never burned down paying for the fire department? Or the childless person paying for the local schools?

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

Surely you see why your later two examples don't work?

? Please enlighten me. If you're going to say that not having a neighborhood burn down, or not having a foreign nation invade benefits everyone, while having paved roads only benefits those with cars and ensuring access to maternity care for everyone benefits only those with children, I'll have to respectfully disagree. I could vow to never enter a road-based vehicle again for the rest of my life and I would still benefit from the portion of my tax $ that is spent on road maintenance. From the goods and services I use that rely directly on our roads for transportation, to simply the fact that nearly everyone else who goes to work to produce the goods and services that benefit me, whether I own a car or not is irrelevant. Likewise, ensuring that families are able to give their children the best shot possible at being healthy members of our society and not risk bankruptcy for the simplest of medical needs benefits you, me, and everyone. A healthy society is a productive society.

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

Round numbers divisible by 5? Out of all the things to dislike you're going to single out this? Would you be happier if it was any of the examples you gave? This makes it look like you're picking out things to pick on for the sole point of being outraged at something in this bill.

Nope, just pointing out that not a lot of thought went into this portion of the bill.....because they are round numbers it looks more like they didn't really study the "needs" of Americans very much but instead just coughed up a couple of numbers that sounded good.

I just think that is something that should be pointed out.....and btw, where did I say or imply that I am "outraged" at anything in this bill? If you question something does that automatically make you "outraged"?

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

? Please enlighten me. If you're going to say that not having a neighborhood burn down, or not having a foreign nation invade benefits everyone, while having paved roads only benefits those with cars and ensuring access to maternity care for everyone benefits only those with children, I'll have to respectfully disagree. I could vow to never enter a road-based vehicle again for the rest of my life and I would still benefit from the portion of my tax $ that is spent on road maintenance. From the goods and services I use that rely directly on our roads for transportation, to simply the fact that nearly everyone else who goes to work to produce the goods and services that benefit me, whether I own a car or not is irrelevant. Likewise, ensuring that families are able to give their children the best shot possible at being healthy members of our society and not risk bankruptcy for the simplest of medical needs benefits you, me, and everyone. A healthy society is a productive society.

Yeah, your right, all three of your examples were Oranges. It's just that the first one looked like, upon initial reading, it might be an apple.

[Ghoulish Delight]

And do you care to expand on why you consider health care access to be an apple?