The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[Alex]

If that was aimed at me, I want to make it clear that I have never claimed that only the right has resorted to violence; only that right wing violence is on the rise.

Trust me, I hardly ever think of you so you can stop wondering if everything I say is directed at you (mentioned only because this is the second time in as many days you've said something like this).

But because you did bring up what you've said, I did just now go back and look and I find that my final point does apply to at least one thing you've said. Oh lucky day for me.

You have not said violence is unique to a side, and I didn't say you did (even if I had been replying to you). You did, however, say that right wing violence is, to use what I actually said, peculiarly unique (Post #5753) in comparison to the violence of the other side. Specifically in that violence associated recent anti-war protests don't frighten you but that right wing violence and rhetoric do.

This is not to say that you're not telling the truth. I'm sure you are completely correct that right-wing violence scares you more than left-wing violence. But it does, to me, undercut the informational value of your outrage over right-wing violence. Just as much as "Yes, Republican violence is awful but you must remember Democrats have done bad things" undercuts the initial condemnation.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Alex

Trust me, I hardly ever think of you so you can stop wondering if everything I say is directed at you (mentioned only because this is the second time in as many days you've said something like this).

But because you did bring up what you've said, I did just now go back and look and I find that my final point does apply to at least one thing you've said. Oh lucky day for me.

You have not said violence is unique to a side, and I didn't say you did (even if I had been replying to you). You did, however, say that right wing violence is, to use what I actually said, peculiarly unique (Post #5753) in comparison to the violence of the other side. Specifically in that violence associated recent anti-war protests don't frighten you but that right wing violence and rhetoric do.

This is not to say that you're not telling the truth. I'm sure you are completely correct that right-wing violence scares you more than left-wing violence. But it does, to me, undercut the informational value of your outrage over right-wing violence. Just as much as "Yes, Republican violence is awful but you must remember Democrats have done bad things" undercuts the initial condemnation.

Insults and ad-hominem attacks now? Way beneath you, Alex.

Your argument makes no sense to me. I acknowledge that there is left wing violence in a post, and this is proof to you that I said violence is unique to the right? WTF?!

[Alex]

Originally Posted by JWBear

Insults and ad-hominem attacks now? Way beneath you, Alex.

I can see how you might be insulted by what I said, but I fail to see anything ad hominem in there.

Your argument makes no sense to me. I acknowledge that there is left wing violence in a post, and this is proof to you that I said violence is unique to the right? WTF?!

That's not what I said at all. In fact, I'd say I quite explicitly agreed with you that you had said no such thing. I'll repeat it and make it orange and bold and bigger so it stands out more.

You have not said violence is unique to a side,

I'd explain my point again but in rereading what I wrote it would appear to be as clear as I can make it so I'll just leave it be.

Ah hell, no I'll give it a shot. You have not said that violence is unique to the right and does not happen on the left. You said that violence from the right is peculiarly unique in that it scares you but violence on the left (at least, specifically, anti-war violence) does not. And that, to me, isn't much different in how it reduces the value of the condemnation than saying "violence form the right is bad but remember than there's been violence from the left too."

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Alex

I can see how you might be insulted by what I said, but I fail to see anything ad hominem in there.



That's not what I said at all. In fact, I'd say I quite explicitly agreed with you that you had said no such thing. I'll repeat it and make it orange and bold and bigger so it stands out more.



I'd explain my point again but in rereading what I wrote it would appear to be as clear as I can make it so I'll just leave it be.

Ah hell, no I'll give it a shot. You have not said that violence is unique to the right and does not happen on the left. You said that violence from the right is peculiarly unique in that it scares you but violence on the left (at least, specifically, anti-war violence) does not. And that, to me, isn't much different in how it reduces the value of the condemnation than saying "violence form the right is bad but remember than there's been violence from the left too."

Here is exactly what I said in the post you referenced:

I never condoned violence conected to anti-war demonstrations, but it never frightened me. The violent actions and rhetoric coming from the right do frighten me.

How on Earth do you equate that with "violence form the right is bad but remember than there's been violence from the left too."? Those who have made that type of statement have used it to try and excuse or lessen right wing violence. Statements like "Well... your side has done it to!"

My point, in the referenced post and elsewhere, is that right wing violence is on the rise; not an attempt to try and dismiss left wing violence.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by JWBear

Here is exactly what I said in the post you referenced:



How on Earth do you equate that with "violence form the right is bad but remember than there's been violence from the left too."? Those who have made that type of statement have used it to try and excuse or lessen right wing violence. Statements like "Well... your side has done it to!"

He's not saying they mean the same thing, he's saying they are equally undercutting.

Someone on the right might say, "violence from the right is bad but remember there's been violence from the left too" in an effort to downplay the violence from the right. Someone on the left might say, "There's been violence from the left, but the violence from the right is scarier" in an effort to downplay the violence from the left.