Terrorist attacks in London - Page 4

€uroMeinke · 07-07-2005, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

But I still don't see terrorists blowing things up because they are poor. You mentioned earlier that you don't see sheiks strapping bombs to themselves, but you don't see a whole lot of homeless Americans doing it either. You don't see suicide bombings in poverty stricken central American nations or in the huge blighted areas of cities like Rio de Janeiro.

Yes, but you have drive by shootings, indiscriminate killings, drug problems, etc. - the ideology sells becasue they are disenfranchised, usually economics is a big componant of that - we seldom want to move to a position of less comfort.

If this is a battle of ideology, I'm not sure a military approach is the most successfull. Pop culture may be a far greater weapon and propaganda must be our tool. We have to make the jihadists look foolish and silly, and a waste of good people's time.

scaeagles · 07-07-2005, 07:20 PM

Non-idealogues may perhaps be satisfied with better economic circumstances. But even in America with the drive by shootings and drugs, it isn't always about poverty.

Look at the hip hop music industry. East coast rappers shoot west coast rappers because they were dissed. Just a day ago or so rapper Li'l Kim was convicted of perjury in a case involving just that. These guys are rich.

Similarly, Islamic terrorists will be regardless of economic conditions. Bin Laden is very wealthy (or at least was - I think he was cut off or had assets frozen or something). His twisted version of Islamm, though, says to kill the infidels, and the infidels are those who doesn't believe what he does. The infidels are those that support Israel.

In Iraq, the general populace wants the terrorists to leave. They don't have support of anywhere near even a fair sized minority. The citizens want them gone. The average Iraqi isn't killing US soldiers or blowing up bombs even though conditions are less than ideal. I think the jihadists already look foolish, silly, and barbaric, but that won't change who they are or what they do. They are zealots who don't care what anyone thinks of them.

Name · 07-07-2005, 07:31 PM

In thinking of it, it seems that the terrorists are in fact fighting a losing battle, if they want us to leave their countries alone, it would be wisest to leave us alone. But that is a slightly buzzed infidel mind thinking, and not a pure follower of islam with someteen virgins waiting for me in a made up utopia land. But really, the more they(the terrorists) bomb, destroy, etc, our country and our friends countries, the more that the push to mess with their ideology will come from our leadership, and in a sense, rightly so. Its a losing game, the only way to win, is not to play.

MickeyLumbo · 07-07-2005, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wendybeth

I suspect it was the French. They are so pissed about the Olympics going to a country that doesn't even know how to cook.

Excellent!

Vous devez écarter un certain mojo autour avant de le
donner à Wendybeth encore.

wendybeth · 07-07-2005, 08:03 PM

(Merci beaucoup, Monsieur Mickeylumbo!

)

MickeyLumbo · 07-07-2005, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

fyi...
fyi...

Quote:
Originally Posted by msnbc.com
People seeking information on Americans believed to have been in London at the time of the attacks were urged to call 1-888-407-4747 (toll-free in the U.S.) or 1-202-501-4444 (regular toll line from outside the U.S. and Canada).

__________________

one American closest to this mornings first blast was Rudolph Gulianni, one block away.

surfinmuse · 07-07-2005, 08:15 PM

Well all our English friends in that area are all alright, one said he was bruised up from the running mob right aroung King's Cross, other than that, everyone was just at home (none of our friends at 9-5ers who commute, as it so happens).

Tref · 07-07-2005, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Name

... the only way to win, is not to play.

And thank you very much, WOPR. How about a nice game of chess instead?

Jazzman · 07-07-2005, 11:57 PM

For the moment I'm resisting getting into the politics of this discussion out of respect for the fact that right now there are hundreds of people in London who are injured or dying, despairing and searching for missing loved ones, and generally hurting. Just as we all were four years ago. I just want to send them as many prayers, thoughts, good vibes and positive waves that I can manage. Debates will undoubtedly rage in the weeks to come, but for now I just want to offer them the same sentiment that they offered us when we were in their place:

Today we are all English.

Boss Radio · 07-08-2005, 01:31 AM

Jan Wenner has already decided that Bush is to blame...

Is it even possible to see both the left and the right meet in the middle to condemn this tragedy? Rather than finger point and play the blame game, is not the real issue how best to to proceed rather than beat each other up over whose perceived fault it is? Posters on both sides agree that terrorism existed pre-9/11 and pre-Iraq - Our actions have challenged it, met it head on, inflamed it, made it better, made it worse, all bringing us to this point: NOW WHAT?

It doesn't matter who started it. What matters is how we finish it. It is beyond ridiculous to see Red vs Blue America at a time like this.
It's not Clinton's fault. Or Bush's fault.

WE started it. All of us. Red and Blue. We drive the cars. We buy the oil. We buddy up to the bad guys and look the other way when we have to. We propped up the bad guys to begin with. Hell, we invented them.

And now, the playing field has been leveled, and we just look like the thug cops who beat Rodney King's sorry ass, taking advantage of the opressed.

The bitter harvest is here, so let's all work together and fix the ****ing thing.

We can't hide our heads in the sand, nor can we pick a fight with an exit strategy written in crayon on a candy bar wrapper.

We really need to evolve. All of us. Humanity.

And as much as we need to give the Arab Street McDonald's and cable TV, we also need to do our best to disrupt and extinguish the newly franchised disenfranchised.
(I just made that up)

If we can't evolve the planet, at least we need to evolve ourselves.

And why is it that people are only nice to each other after a tsunami, or a bombing, or Christmas?

07-07-2005, 07:20 PM	#32
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	Non-idealogues may perhaps be satisfied with better economic circumstances. But even in America with the drive by shootings and drugs, it isn't always about poverty. Look at the hip hop music industry. East coast rappers shoot west coast rappers because they were dissed. Just a day ago or so rapper Li'l Kim was convicted of perjury in a case involving just that. These guys are rich. Similarly, Islamic terrorists will be regardless of economic conditions. Bin Laden is very wealthy (or at least was - I think he was cut off or had assets frozen or something). His twisted version of Islamm, though, says to kill the infidels, and the infidels are those who doesn't believe what he does. The infidels are those that support Israel. In Iraq, the general populace wants the terrorists to leave. They don't have support of anywhere near even a fair sized minority. The citizens want them gone. The average Iraqi isn't killing US soldiers or blowing up bombs even though conditions are less than ideal. I think the jihadists already look foolish, silly, and barbaric, but that won't change who they are or what they do. They are zealots who don't care what anyone thinks of them.
	Submit to Quotes

07-07-2005, 07:31 PM	#33
Name Title Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: here Posts: 779	In thinking of it, it seems that the terrorists are in fact fighting a losing battle, if they want us to leave their countries alone, it would be wisest to leave us alone. But that is a slightly buzzed infidel mind thinking, and not a pure follower of islam with someteen virgins waiting for me in a made up utopia land. But really, the more they(the terrorists) bomb, destroy, etc, our country and our friends countries, the more that the push to mess with their ideology will come from our leadership, and in a sense, rightly so. Its a losing game, the only way to win, is not to play. __________________ Signature
	Submit to Quotes

07-07-2005, 08:03 PM	#35
wendybeth Nevermind Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,847	(Merci beaucoup, Monsieur Mickeylumbo! ) __________________
	Submit to Quotes

07-07-2005, 08:15 PM	#37
surfinmuse Mind the Gap Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 123	Well all our English friends in that area are all alright, one said he was bruised up from the running mob right aroung King's Cross, other than that, everyone was just at home (none of our friends at 9-5ers who commute, as it so happens).
	Submit to Quotes

07-07-2005, 11:57 PM	#39
Jazzman Sax God Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Portland's Tijuana Posts: 510	For the moment I'm resisting getting into the politics of this discussion out of respect for the fact that right now there are hundreds of people in London who are injured or dying, despairing and searching for missing loved ones, and generally hurting. Just as we all were four years ago. I just want to send them as many prayers, thoughts, good vibes and positive waves that I can manage. Debates will undoubtedly rage in the weeks to come, but for now I just want to offer them the same sentiment that they offered us when we were in their place: Today we are all English.
	Submit to Quotes

07-08-2005, 01:31 AM	#40
Boss Radio The Littlest Hobo Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Hobo Junction Posts: 393	Jan Wenner has already decided that Bush is to blame... Is it even possible to see both the left and the right meet in the middle to condemn this tragedy? Rather than finger point and play the blame game, is not the real issue how best to to proceed rather than beat each other up over whose perceived fault it is? Posters on both sides agree that terrorism existed pre-9/11 and pre-Iraq - Our actions have challenged it, met it head on, inflamed it, made it better, made it worse, all bringing us to this point: NOW WHAT? It doesn't matter who started it. What matters is how we finish it. It is beyond ridiculous to see Red vs Blue America at a time like this. It's not Clinton's fault. Or Bush's fault. WE started it. All of us. Red and Blue. We drive the cars. We buy the oil. We buddy up to the bad guys and look the other way when we have to. We propped up the bad guys to begin with. Hell, we invented them. And now, the playing field has been leveled, and we just look like the thug cops who beat Rodney King's sorry ass, taking advantage of the opressed. The bitter harvest is here, so let's all work together and fix the ****ing thing. We can't hide our heads in the sand, nor can we pick a fight with an exit strategy written in crayon on a candy bar wrapper. We really need to evolve. All of us. Humanity. And as much as we need to give the Arab Street McDonald's and cable TV, we also need to do our best to disrupt and extinguish the newly franchised disenfranchised. (I just made that up) If we can't evolve the planet, at least we need to evolve ourselves. And why is it that people are only nice to each other after a tsunami, or a bombing, or Christmas?
	Submit to Quotes