Elvis...or Michael?

[mousepod]

GD - he didn't innovate any of those changes - he had a massively successful album and spent a couple of years taking advantage of his fame in an industry that was still fairly insular.

Thriller - Thanksgiving '82
Pepsi - November '83 (Hardly an original deal - even the Rolling Stones had done a similar deal with Jovan for Tattoo You)
We Are The World - March '85 (You already mentioned Band-Aid. What about Bangladesh?)
Jackson buys the Beatles publishing - '85 (Publishing as a way to make money was a "mega-scale business" long before a single note was ever put onto a wax cylinder. In fact, it was Paul McCartney who became the richest songwriter of all time by owning publishing (ironically, not of his own classic songs). It's also ironic that McCartney is the one who suggested Jackson invest in publishing and them was outbid on the Beatles catalog by him.)

I stand with Strangler Lewis on the fact that much of what he influenced artistically is crap.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by mousepod

I stand with Strangler Lewis on the fact that much of what he influenced artistically is crap.

Side note - I find it a shame that people who I know love music so well pass such harsh judgment on others' tastes.

I don't particularly like Elvis, and I'd probably use the word "crap" to elaborate (not in a way that suggests I have the official opinion on such things), but I would never say that that's a reason why he's less influential.

[mousepod]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Side note - I find it a shame that people who I know love music so well pass such harsh judgment on others' tastes.

No shame here, CP. I was completely backing up the notion that Michael Jackson, with his Thriller and Beat It videos - and by extension his live show - clearly begat the era of spectacular "music" concerts where synchronized choreography takes precedent of the actual performing of the music. Maybe MJ wasn't lip-syncing, but most of the arena-filling performers that followed him did. And that's crap.

And I'm saying that as someone who respects Justin and counts himself a fan of Madonna and Beyonce.

[Kevy Baby]

Sorry for the "me too" post, but I have to agree with CP's post above. Just because it isn't something you like, doesn't automatically mean it is crap. MJ was very creative in not only his music, but in his performances as well. Although, it could easily be argued that much of his work was more evolutionary than revolutionary.

And the same could be said of Elvis: much of what he was doing was just mimicking what the "black" music scene was had been doing for a while (remember that the 50's were still a very racist time and blacks at the time were still vastly shunned in the entertainment business).

There is a fair amount of music out there that I don't care for, but I am still able to respect the artist (Dylan and Neil Young come to mind).

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

Paul Anka and Prince should certainly be up there.

Up where?

I am mainly joking, but I don't really think of Paul Anka as a trailblazer/trendsetter. Yes, he was very popular and has been around for a while, but I never thought of him as all that unique (he does have an amazing voice though!).

Prince - very talented musician and song writer.

[mousepod]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

Sorry for the "me too" post, but I have to agree with CP's post above. Just because it isn't something you like, doesn't automatically mean it is crap.

I agree.

Perhaps you posted this before you read my response to CP, which clarified my position.

On the other hand, there is such a thing as crap. I'd love a thread (not this one) which discusses the notion that quality is based on taste and therefore is completely subjective. (Hint: I'd take the opposing side)

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by mousepod

Perhaps you posted this before you read my response to CP, which clarified my position.

I did - I was still composing when your post came up.

But I have to ask: are you are blaming (in this case) MJ for other similar acts that followed that are (in your opinion) crap? That doesn't seem like a reasonable possibility. Am I missing something?

[mousepod]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

I did - I was still composing when your post came up.

But I have to ask: are you are blaming (in this case) MJ for other similar acts that followed that are (in your opinion) crap? That doesn't seem like a reasonable possibility. Am I missing something?

Of course I'm not blaming Michael Jackson for the crap that he didn't do.

This is an example of a frustration I sometimes have with this kind of message board discussion.

GD said (in part) "MJ was more than a good performer that presented world-changing music and entertainment, he actually had a heavy personal hand in creating it, and in effecting the changes in the industry that followed in its wake."

I asked him for examples.

GD replied (in part) "The dominance since his career of acts like Beyonce, Justin Timberlake, Britney Spears, Madonna, etc. They all draw from his style and music, in which he was a major creative component."

The conversation was (at that stage) about influence. If MJ gets assigned credit for the success of talents like Beyonce, Justin Timberlake, Madonna etc, then I added to SL's response in which he said " was just about to say if the question is who had more of a bad influence on music, Michael Jackson wins hands down for all the synchronized back-up dancer heavy crap he begat.".

That's all.

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by mousepod

I agree.

Perhaps you posted this before you read my response to CP, which clarified my position.

On the other hand, there is such a thing as crap. I'd love a thread (not this one) which discusses the notion that quality is based on taste and therefore is completely subjective. (Hint: I'd take the opposing side)

I agree. I would add that my use of the word "crap" does not merely signal criticism of pieces of music but of a pernicious cultural phenomenon. Indeed, I would submit that most passionate criticism of art is not directed solely at the art work standing alone but at how art influences behavior.

For example, I would say that whoever convinced the women of America--and, indeed, some of the grade school girls of America--that they need to be walking around with their ass crack popping out of the top of their jeans has not merely committed an error of fashion judgment. They have done something bad.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by mousepod

GD - he didn't innovate any of those changes

Good point, wish I'd said as much.

[mousepod]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Good point, wish I'd said as much.

No snark here. I know you said that. But you also used the verb "create" a bunch, too. Feel free to replace "innovate" with "create" in my response.