The "Inception" Thread

[Alex]

Originally Posted by mousepod

Good point. I completely forgot about that. So the absence of Cobb from any scene isn't a plot hole at all. Nice.

True, but then the absence of the dreamer from a particular scene becomes the new plothole. For example, in the snow level, action is shown taking place in at least three distinct locations at the same time. No one person was present for everything shown.

I'm fairly certain that they present Miles as Mal's father, not Cobb's. Perhaps he's the one who is trying to get Cobb to admit that he performed inception on his daughter.

That's possible, I thought he was Cobb's father but may have missed/forgot something. Steve, since you've seen it twice do you recall anything explicit one way or the other?

What if Mal isn't dead, but in some kind of permanent dream state? If she was the dreamer, that might explain why Cobb uses her totem - and why her "secret" was the totem itself.

Agreed, completely possible truth. But not one, I think, with any evidence in the movie itself.

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

It was said that if you spent an inordinate of time in limbo, your brain would melt. I guess they were talking about real time as opposed to limbo time, but both Cobb and Saito spent lifetimes in limbo without any brain-melt on return to "reality."

They also spent times in constructed realities within Limbo. It was said that Limbo was unconstructed empty dreamspace or whatever you yourself created in it. I took melting to meant that you'd go crazy from a near-eterinity in sensory deprivation.

How, in fact, did Cobb escape from Limbo? I forget, if it was told?

The first time? He put his head down on the train tracks with Mal. The second time, if he did escape, presumably he and Saito killed themselves.

I suppose if Mal and Cobb were only in limbo for a few weeks of their real life, no brain melt would be necessary.

Presumably they were in limbo for only a few hours at most in real time. During the limbo explanation it was shown several times that they were lying on their living room floor (same house as he returns to at the end) dreaming. Presumably somebody would have found them and awoken them if they'd been out for much longer than that (having kids and all).

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Alex

True, but then the absence of the dreamer from a particular scene becomes the new plothole. For example, in the snow level, action is shown taking place in at least three distinct locations at the same time. No one person was present for everything shown.

How is this a new plothole? I thought we solved a slew of plotholes by positing that dreamers needn't be present in all scenes of their own dreams. As you point out, this was clearly true of the snow level - so it's set up as the film's own internal logic - - and thus my theory of Cobb as the dreamer of the entire shibang holds water. Heck, even mousepod's theory of Mal as the dreamer works in this scenario.

Originally Posted by Alex

That's possible, I thought he was Cobb's father but may have missed/forgot something. Steve, since you've seen it twice do you recall anything explicit one way or the other?

Ha! Haven't you realized yet that, though I've seen it twice, I'm not retaining as many details as people who barely sat through the trailer?

But, no, I don't recall any dialogue one way or the other, just that the relationship didn't seem like father-son to me.

Originally Posted by Alex

They also spent times in constructed realities within Limbo. It was said that Limbo was unconstructed empty dreamspace or whatever you yourself created in it. I took melting to meant that you'd go crazy from a near-eterinity in sensory deprivation.

So where is this sensory-deprivation limbo and how do you get there? Certainly Mal and Cobb's 50-years-together limbo was not this limbo then. And the "limbo" that Cobb rescued Saito from was not a limbo either. Why did he need rescuing? It was clearly told that Saito would be doomed to limbo if he died so deep in dream levels ... but that's not what happened at all. He lived a full life in familiar surroundings. I call shenanigans!

Originally Posted by Alex

Presumably they were in limbo for only a few hours at most in real time. During the limbo explanation it was shown several times that they were lying on their living room floor (same house as he returns to at the end) dreaming. Presumably somebody would have found them and awoken them if they'd been out for much longer than that (having kids and all).

Ah, 'natch. I still want an internet Inception Dream Time Calculator though.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

How is this a new plothole? I thought we solved a slew of plotholes by positing that dreamers needn't be present in all scenes of their own dreams.

It's not. My point was just that if there is an assumption that the dreamer must be present for what is dreamed then it just shifts the plothole from explaining why Cobb isn't in each scene to explaining why someone (or a desginated gruop of someone's) isn't in each scene.

If you don't assume the dreamer has to be physically present then there is no issue.