The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Like I said earlier, typical leftist elitism.

What you call "elitism" I call "being educated and aware".

[Ghoulish Delight]

Any party that holds Sarah Palin in high regard I have no problem labeling as a party of ignorance. She is willfully ignorant, proud of her ignorance, and points to her ignorance as an asset. And the Tea Party embraces her as a hero.

As long as the Tea Party continues to promote Sarah Palin as a worthwhile voice to listen, I don't give a rat's ass if you can prove that every single one of the ignorant, racist, illiterate signs were photoshopped by Al Gore himself, I will continue to call the Tea Party a party of ignorance.

[BarTopDancer]

The ignorance of a good portion of this country terrifies me. There are people who only watch Fox and Glenn Beck. They really do believe every single thing said by them. What's worse is the flip flopping Fox and Beck do. Six months ago they didn't have an issue with the Mosque near Ground Zero being built. Now, it's a horrible, awful thing... and it's being built in the exact same location they had no issue with 6 months ago.

[Alex]

I'd say scaeagles is right. Typical leftist elitism is to assume that those who disagree politically are stupid. Typical rightist elitism is to assume that those who disagree politically are immoral.

My point of objection to that particular t-shirt would be that while I do personally think that an unacceptably large number of self appointed (though apparently at least with some level of consent from the other members) leaders of the Tea Party movement are complete dingbats, the particular dingbattery mentioned in that t-shirt is not, to my experience, a prominent part of it.

Equally effective (and possibly its at the web site) t shirt more on topic would be "Obama won't keep the government's hands off my Medicare. That's why I'm voting Tea Party."

Mostly, though, while I'm sure I'd find some of the shirts amusing, i'm guessing they partake in the boring tendency to assume that political disagreement must be caused by some level of mendacity in those you disagree with. And once that's assumed then simple ad hominem is fine.

[JWBear]

Un-fvcking-believable!

Asked at the meeting how he would achieve those savings, Paladino laid out several plans that included converting underused state prisons into centers that would house welfare recipients. There, they would do work for the state - "military service, in some cases park service, in other cases public works service," he said - while prison guards would be retrained to work as counselors.

[Alex]

What's particularly unbelievable is that I don't see any mechanism by which that plan (ignoring its value as a program for dealing with welfare needs, though if you ignore the hygiene comment and the visual of using a prison then providing minimal housing and an entry level job sounds a lot like plenty of other plans) actually saves any money for the state.

The welfare recipients still get welfare, the prison guards still have jobs (that they're not qualified for) and now the state is paying housing expenses for the recipients. I suppose it might replace some low level state jobs, but I'm guessing that those don't really account for 20% of the state's budget.

[Alex]

A New York Times editorial contains this brilliant little piece of analysis:

But many of Mr. DeLay’s actions remain legal only because lawmakers have chosen not to criminalize them.

I shake my head at the travesty that is the fact that many of my actions remain legal only because they're not illegal.

(This is not to say that if given the opportunity I wouldn't criminalize various things that Tom DeLay or I have done; but it is a remarkably stupid sentence.)

[scaeagles]

Thank God there is a ban against ex post facto laws.

[scaeagles]

Alex, to expand on your typical leftist and conservative elitism, I think that the left side has just as large of a moral superiority complex as does the right.

You criticize President Obama? You must be a racist.
You don't want you taxes raised? You must want the poor to starve and children to die of leukemia!
You don't support the latest environmental legislation? You must want dirty water and food that isn't safe to eat.
Etc, etc, etc.

If you don't support typically leftist causes, it must be because you are selfish, or racist, or homophobic, or don't care about the future for the children, or any number of other unpleasant descriptions bestowed upon you by the left.

[Alex]

Yeah, sure. And I can find plenty of conservative examples of assuming people on the left are stupid. I'm of the opinion, though, that on average the left tends to dismiss those who disagree with them as stupid while on average the right tends to dismiss those who disagree with them as immoral.

I'm sure we can agree that truly idiotic things are said by all sorts of people from all points on the political spectrum. And we all tend to pretend that our **** don't stink on our side of the fence. But the leadership (to the extent there is one, maybe a better phrase would be "those members getting prominent media attention") can hardly sit there agog and naive to this idea while crapping out their own fair share of rather stupid ****.

With most political operatives playing out this form of theater I generally suspect that they're perfectly aware they're staying stupid (and sadly, political effective) nonsense but feel that's the way the game is played. It is hard to say whether it speaks well or poorly of her that Sharron Angle seems to actually believe the nonsense she says.