The 2016 Election

[scaeagles]

Hillary has a moral center. But it's not a center on the good side.

[RStar]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Trump is a child with no moral center. His only goal is self aggrandizement and he's handing out favor and power to anyone who will stroke his ego.

I admit this is my opinion of him. This was the first election that I did not vote Republican. I think of a spoiled rich kid who grew up longing for the approval of his absentee father. Then, after being on the top of his own corporate ladder for so long, he hungered for more power and gave this politics thing a shot. Everyone laughed and didn't take it seriously, and now he's got what he wanted, *shudder*... the most powerful man in the world.

I only hope and pray that I'm wrong.

[Ghoulish Delight]

FFS scaeagles, that's it? Seriously? "Hilary is evil" is it? Because what, Paul Ryan, the spineless wonder, is some great paragon of political morality? Or Jeb? Or any of them?

Grow up. Stop getting fooled by the Clinton mythology sold by the right for 30 years. She's a politician with 30 years of high-profile power positions - she's done the things a politician in that position do. And yes, many of those things suck. But she's not alone. She's not uniquely evil. She's not some exceptionally bad actor. I think you know I'm not one to play this "card" lightly - but a man with her experience and track record doesn't engender a FRACTION of the scorn and scrutiny that she has. Her "reputation" is so transparently the result of the ease of selling the story that a woman is conniving and deceitful, and out to trick you it's pathetic.


You disagree with her politics. Fine. You're unhappy with the pervasive accepted corruption that is baked into politics top to bottom, in both parties. Fine. So am I. But this is the alternative? Megalomania and neo-Naziism? This isn't a course correction, this is slamming the boat into the rocks.

I really wish NPR hadn't just reminded me of Silvio Beerlusconi. It's not making my day better.

[scaeagles]

I don't recall praising anyone. I don't believe Hillary is evil, but I don't believe she has anything close to good morals.

Grow up? As if I'm some sort of preadolescent idiot who can't determine what is right or wrong? I believe you, sir, are the one throwing a child like temper tantrum when you have spoken much more harshly of Trump than I have of Clinton, and dare I say have bought into the prominent left-wing rhetoric regarding Trump, and he has yet to do anything official (though I won't dispute his Boeing comments were out of line).

Clinton mythology? Private email server regarding which she lied repeatedly, all of the improprieties of her foundation, her pathetic foreign policy with regard to the middle east....the list is endless.

I get that you don't like Trump. I don't like Clinton. And the country is pretty divided as to which is preferred (though I will point out that an ABC favorability poll shows him at 50% now, so obviously he is winning people over). But get over the "grow up" crap that reminds me more of the trolls that existed on fabs board (was that the name?) than the reasonable discussion that used to exist in this forum. Be ashamed.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I am ashamed. Ashamed of an electorate that's willing to overlook racism, misogyny, xenophobia, and cavalier threats nuclear action for the mythical promise of factory jobs and tax cuts for the rich.

[Ghoulish Delight]

you're acting like this is just some "two sides of the same coin" garbage. Nope. Trump is not just the usual "lesser of two evils" political pendulum crap. Trump, and the people he's surrounded himself with, have publicly, explicitly, and unashamedly promoted dangerous ideas that denigrate the humanity of vast swaths of the population.

His "populism" is exactly why I've grown up learning about the Holocaust so I can be on the lookout for it. And I'm not going to just be quiet and "see what happens" or "give him a chance." They don't get a chance.

[Ghoulish Delight]

And let me be clear, it's BARELY* about Trump at this point. It's a bout who Trump has chosen to represent and whom he's allowed to have a 'legitimate' voice in this country. Trump is a shell that recklessly rode a wave of white nationalism to this position. As a political individual, I don't care what he does or doesn't believe. What I care about is the "platform" (Bannon's word) his team has given to hate filled racists.



* Not to underplay the danger he himself represents from a diplomacy perspective. But that would be tolerable if it weren't for the team of conspirators he's surrounded himself with that will do nothing to reign his ineptness in.

[scaeagles]

I am not at all surprised by our completely differing point of view. I am mortified by the dangerous foreign policy exhibited by Clinton during her tenure as the Secretary of State and what would certainly have been a continuation of current Obama foreign policy. I am mortified by inept domestic policy of the last eight years, seeing the national debt double in that time span and observing government involvement in health care resulting in tremendous cost increases and broken promises, and that spending and those policies would surely continue under Clinton (I admit and hang my head that the Republicans are complicit in each of those things as well....again, this is not a Republican-Democrat thing, as I am moving more and more toward Libertarianism over time). This is why my top choices were three political novices and two relative new comers in the Senate. The system is broken, polluted by self serving politicians who desire clinging to their power more than doing what is right. You regard Trump as crashing the boat on the rocks, as you put it, but there is plenty of evidence that the ship has been there for quite a while.

[Ghoulish Delight]

We're talking "I disagree with her politics and economic theories" vs. "He has shown disregard for basic human decency." Trump's base racism and misogyny should be outright disqualifiers for the position he's been given. It's sickening that they are not and sickening that half the electorate prioritizes a few percentage points of their tax dollars over the dignity and safety of fellow humans.

[Ghoulish Delight]

As for the nonsense that Obama has been ruining our economy for 8 years (and by extension that Hillary Clinton will continue to...becaues Bill, or something):

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/15/gradi...e-numbers.html


At WORST it's stagnant, but the overall picture is an IMPROVED economy since he took office at a point where the economy was in the tank and headed downward. Yes, there's some mixed stuff in there, and not everything he did was perfect - but this picture you paint of Obama steering us into the rocks is absolutely nonsense and unsupported by the facts.