War is peace

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by Morrigoon

Nephy: my bad, I realize you were only talking about what Bush is saying... but understand that what he's saying is part of the bigger picture. He's claiming to be defending freedom on one hand, while taking away our freedoms with the other.

What am I less free to do?

[Morrigoon]

Hmm... where to even BEGIN with this one...

For example, you are not free to go from DL's picnic area to the bathroom a mere 20 feet away without subjecting yourself and packages to a search. (I know that's not based in stuff done by the gov't, but it IS a reduction in freedom)

You are not free to go from your car to an airplane without removing your shoes.

You are not free to do your nails on an airplane as that equipment (tweezers, for crying out loud!) will be taken away from you.

You are not free to hand-carry your expensive golf clubs on the plane, but must instead subject them to all the rough treatment of such checked baggage. (there was a time when you could bring up to 3 clubs hand-carried, but I'm almost positive you can't even do that anymore)

You are not allowed to carry anything with you that MIGHT POSSIBLY be used as a weapon, regardless of your actual intent for the object.

These are small freedoms, but they're freedoms.

You do not have full freedom of speech in public places (for example, the freedom to crack a joke), if such speech might be misconstrued as a threat

Boy scouts are not free to carry their penknives, as they had previously been free to do (this technically is more due to zero-tolerance policies on school violence, but it does equate to a loss of freedoms)

[PanTheMan]

Originally Posted by Morrigoon

Peace through economic prosperity.

We have shared economic prosperity with China, it still is an Uneasy Peace.
True peace comes from understanding. Lets say there is a person I dont get along with. I start to buy them Lunch everyday. Well, this will create an uneasy truce, but it wont buy me respect or freindship.

Only when we UNDERSTAND eachother's differences and they us, will we have true Peace. When i was in the middle east in '83, I learned real fast they were very different in how they see things. Money means very little to them. That is why we haven't had any offers on that 50 million bounty on Osama. We have a different value system. Where most Americans would sell gramdma down the river for a million, other cultures value loyalty far more than any price. When we UNDERSTAND how to win the trust of other cultures we will have true peace.

[scaeagles]

When dealing with someone who is reasonable and wants a peaceful coexistance, this is a great strategy, Pan. When dealing with Islamofascist terrorists, there can be no peaceful coexistance, because they are not interested in one. They are interested in their brand of Islam being imposed on everyone, and until this is accomplished, there is no other option for them than to continue in terrorist activities.

They will not be satisfied until the State of Isreal and everyone of Jewish decent is dead. They are not interested in negotiations for occupied territories.

When dealing with someone who is reasonable, one can be reasonable. When dealing with someone who has no interest in any sort of compromise and has the death of the Jews and of western culture as their uncompromising goal, there is no way to deal with them other than by eliminating them first.

[Morrigoon]

Originally Posted by PanTheMan

We have shared economic prosperity with China, it still is an Uneasy Peace.
True peace comes from understanding. Lets say there is a person I dont get along with. I start to buy them Lunch everyday. Well, this will create an uneasy truce, but it wont buy me respect or freindship.

There is a difference between buying someone lunch, (which is easy for anyone of money to do and creates a question of ulterior motives), and praising them in front of their boss, helping them to get a promotion, enabling them to better afford their own lunch.

Reminds me of a metaphor my dad once shared about the difference between Democrat and Republican approaches....

[Nephythys]

Ok- here is understanding-
They have said they want peace- but only peace under the law of Islam
Islamic law considers us infidels unless we are Muslim- and if we do not convert we are to be killed rather than tolerated.

Do you plan to convert for them?

[PanTheMan]

Moorigoon, I agree. I have said on another post even though I am a democrat the "Welfare society" created by the Dems is an outright failure and creates more dependancy. This however is not the basis od the Deomcratic party, just their Biggest Failure. I have a far greater problem with the GOP's corporate welfare, but that is another thread.

SCAeagales- I also agree the best way to handle any sort of terrorist is with a quick shot to the head. I do not believe all in the Middle east are terrorists though. What is solving the Problem for instance in Ireland, is the people aren't putting up with it anymore and dont want to be represnted by IRA terrorists. This has happened by letting the people understand there are better ways to acheive political goals, and becoming more tolerant of eachother in general.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Ok- here is understanding-
They have said they want peace- but only peace under the law of Islam
Islamic law considers us infidels unless we are Muslim- and if we do not convert we are to be killed rather than tolerated.

Do you plan to convert for them?

And that has to do with Iraq, a secularly ruled Middle Eastern country because...

[PanTheMan]

And on the "Welfare Society" Wasn't it Clintons Back to Work programs that drastically changed it?

Why wasn't it Reagan or Bush41?... (and dont blame the Dem Congress of the time, R & B's proposals were not workable proposals)

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

And that has to do with Iraq, a secularly ruled Middle Eastern country because...

Iraq was not the only topic, and by no means the only place we are at war. Outside the bubble of Iraq is a much bigger issue. Radical Islam who would put many people you love up against the wall first because they are the worst of the infidels.