Vatican to Ban Gay Priests

Eliza Hodgkins 1812 · 09-22-2005, 04:35 PM

I think IS is right. Undead Pope! Undead!

I think the Catholic church should allow gays. And women. And donkeys. And baby seals. Etc. Because the priesthood is a dying profession.

I'll even write their new slogan: The More the Holier...and Merrier!

Actually, their problem would be solved if they simply allowed priests to marry, have partners, etc. In this Modern world, celibacy just isn't an option for most people. In the way back when, when people were generally ugly and smelly and pock marked and covered in arsenic powders, celibacy would have been a treat and a mercy.

Priests used to be allowed to marry. My understanding is that the Church decided to change this when it realized it would save money by disallowing marriage. A priest who doesn't have to support a wife and family - or leave behind some kind of widow's pension - is a bargain for the church. And nuns? Used to be, if you were a Christian woman who wanted to learn how to read, you better become a prostitute or a nun. So scholarly women became nuns. And the rest were usually woman who had no had dowries, and their families couldn't afford to keep them. Your sisters married before you. You have a hunched back, no dowry, and no man wants to take you off your father’s hands? To the nunnery with you, away! The nuns of real religious fervor and faith were probably few and far between. Most nuns, much like Maria, were simply waiting for their Captain von Trapps to come along.

Sex for priests! Sex for nuns! And what you’ll have are better, happier, more abundant servants of Christ. I guarantee it.

Prudence · 09-22-2005, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eliza Hodgkins 1812

Priests used to be allowed to marry. My understanding is that the Church decided to change this when it realized it would save money by disallowing marriage. A priest who doesn't have to support a wife and family - or leave behind some kind of widow's pension - is a bargain for the church.

Indeed this is true. In fact, it was first sons that were disinherited/declared illegitimate. The church did not want sons of clergy to make inheritance claims on church lands. (Initially, daughters were not a problem.) The church struggled with this for some time with various pushes for celibacy alternating with married popes and such (Leo the something or other). The First Lateran Council in 1123 was pretty emphatic in requiring celibacy.

It's puzzling for me, a non-Catholic, that marriage should be lauded as a sacrament -- not just spiffy but a *holy sacrament* -- and also forbidden to the clergy. It's also puzzling to me as a historian. The various dualist heresies of the middle ages frequently practiced a strict celibacy amongst the lay people (they were also vegitarians -- wouldn't consume the products of coition) and boy did that upset the church! Marry and eat chickens or be burned at the stake!

Eliza Hodgkins 1812 · 09-22-2005, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prudence

It's also puzzling to me as a historian.

Man, do I love knowing a historian. Fascinating read. Thanks.

Prudence · 09-22-2005, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eliza Hodgkins 1812

Man, do I love knowing a historian. Fascinating read. Thanks.

I do teach a class called "So, you want to be a heretic?" Yup, I'm a nutter.

MickeyD · 09-23-2005, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prudence

It's puzzling for me, a non-Catholic, that marriage should be lauded as a sacrament -- not just spiffy but a *holy sacrament* -- and also forbidden to the clergy.

Ah, but, they consider the sacrament that is available only to priests (& deacons), Holy Orders, to be even more holy than marriage.

Prudence · 09-23-2005, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickeyD

Ah, but, they consider the sacrament that is available only to priests (& deacons), Holy Orders, to be even more holy than marriage.

But the two sacraments were not always mutually exclusive. The adoption of a more ascetic lifestyle was gradual, in fits and starts, and not imposed from the beginning. In fact, there are those who argue that the church does not truly follow through with its alleged committment to the ascetic life -- witness the various reform-style heresies (Waldensians, Humiliati, etc...) -- and that it's historical accumulation of property is inconsistent with its mission.

But that would be an entirely different thread.

09-22-2005, 04:35 PM	#1
Eliza Hodgkins 1812 Sputnik Sweetheart Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Long Beach Posts: 2,685	I think IS is right. Undead Pope! Undead! I think the Catholic church should allow gays. And women. And donkeys. And baby seals. Etc. Because the priesthood is a dying profession. I'll even write their new slogan: The More the Holier...and Merrier! Actually, their problem would be solved if they simply allowed priests to marry, have partners, etc. In this Modern world, celibacy just isn't an option for most people. In the way back when, when people were generally ugly and smelly and pock marked and covered in arsenic powders, celibacy would have been a treat and a mercy. Priests used to be allowed to marry. My understanding is that the Church decided to change this when it realized it would save money by disallowing marriage. A priest who doesn't have to support a wife and family - or leave behind some kind of widow's pension - is a bargain for the church. And nuns? Used to be, if you were a Christian woman who wanted to learn how to read, you better become a prostitute or a nun. So scholarly women became nuns. And the rest were usually woman who had no had dowries, and their families couldn't afford to keep them. Your sisters married before you. You have a hunched back, no dowry, and no man wants to take you off your father’s hands? To the nunnery with you, away! The nuns of real religious fervor and faith were probably few and far between. Most nuns, much like Maria, were simply waiting for their Captain von Trapps to come along. Sex for priests! Sex for nuns! And what you’ll have are better, happier, more abundant servants of Christ. I guarantee it.
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