Health Care

[tikiboy]

Originally Posted by Name

because to allow nationwide healthcare is a socialist idea.....

and socialism is evil....

We don't have nationalized health care because no one wants the same people who bring us the post office and the DMV to be running our health care.

Does the healthcare industry need a makeover? Yes.
Will the market take care of it? Yes.
Will government make it all better? Heck no.

Also thank the religious hospitals out there. They take care of a great deal of the destitute out there who would have no where else to go. This is all in the face of politicians telling them "We like what you do, but we don't like why you do it."

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by tikiboy

Does the healthcare industry need a makeover? Yes.
Will the market take care of it? Yes.
Will government make it all better? Heck no.

While I know this is just bumper sticker philosophy - it's simplicity really irks me as the reality is both have to work together. The market is a powerful tool, but it's focus is profit and the creation of wealth (usually more short term these days) - and not necessarily the health and well being of it's citizens/market pool.

Likewise, while the government can be a cumbersome impedence, it is the tool we have to make sure our needs are met in the long-term.

Both have to play and striking the balance and division of duties is really the hard work that nobody wants to do.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

The market is a powerful tool, but it's focus is profit and the creation of wealth (usually more short term these days) - and not necessarily the health and well being of it's citizens/market pool.

Also, in pure market terms, pricing large portions of the population out of health care is a perfectly viable, and likely, option. They don't need to be affordable to everyone to make a profit. I'm kinda of the opinion that one's financial standing should have little to no bearing on one's right to receive medical care.

[PanTheMan]

Originally Posted by tikiboy

We don't have nationalized health care because no one wants the same people who bring us the post office and the DMV to be running our health care.

I believe EVERY American should have health care coverage. Be it a basic plan, a plan none the less.

From there if a person does not want the "County Hospital Experience" they can add to their coverage by personally paying a premium.

What many people dont understand, is when people, a VERY MANY PEOPLE, use the system and have no insurance, and no money, (Often the same people living 'High Risk' lifestyles who end up at the hospital more often) we forget it is US who flip the bill by higher costs passed onto us!

Due to the high cost of Health Care, MANY employers dont even offer health care to thier employees, or only do so for "Full Time" employees, and then have them work 39 hours a week and call them part time.

But yes...socialism bad....bad, bad, bad....(Cheers heard from the GOP convention floor, those wal-mart workers in the corner cheering for the Millionaire on stage....good for them!)

[MouseWife]

You surely did hit upon a point.

I know of people who do not have health coverage but are always in the ER, Intensive Care, etc. With health problems that they bring on to themselves. Drugs, alcohol, etc.

And, what totally TOTALLY makes me want to throttle them is that they complain about the care they are given, like they are being mistreated. Of course, this is the addiction talking but still.

Yep, we pay for their care in higher premiums or limited coverage.

I know that health coverage is a rare thing or hard to get. Some places have a minimum number of hours to work to be covered and by golly, they don't always get those hours. Go figure.

[PanTheMan]

Originally Posted by MouseWife

You surely did hit upon a point.

I know of people who do not have health coverage but are always in the ER, Intensive Care, etc. With health problems that they bring on to themselves. Drugs, alcohol, etc.

And, what totally TOTALLY makes me want to throttle them is that they complain about the care they are given, like they are being mistreated. Of course, this is the addiction talking but still.

Exactly. I have an alcoholic neighbor who is a one man health care crisis. He has drank himself into pancreatic failure, a fractured skull, a really bad car accedent, and numerous other health problems. His Pancreatic Failure I.C.U. experience cost almost $1 Million (He is now Insulin Dependant) His car accedent, Cost OVER 1 Million for him and another 1/2 Million in damage to the city (Thank God, he missed several oncoming cars, and only took out street signs, the front of a building and a telephone poll going 50+ in a 25, passed out, foot on the gas) How he lives is beyond us all. Was sentanced to "Rehab" lasted 2 weeks...

Everytime his now mended broken back gives him trouble, he WANTS TO SUE. Everytime he needs to inject insulin HE WANTS TO SUE, because he convinced the Hospital screwed up, and the list goes on... (All Doctors are A-Holes, The Nurses are B*tches...)

Guess what folks, WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS BILLS! We also need some sort of 3 strikes law for those bent on drinking or drugging themselves to death, but that wont happen.


Then my Mother wonders Why she has to pay $600 a MONTH at age 72 for Kaiser.

[tikiboy]

The healthy paying for others' misfortune or irresponsiblity is how the health care industry has always worked. It always will.

I also feel that everyone regardless of how much they make should recieve some form of health care. But the proposals that have been brought forth so far by the California legislature or by proposition haven't been the solution.

A couple of posts have made light of people's fears of socialism(i.e. socialism...bad). The fact is we already live in a "mixed economy" where socialism is present(i.e. Medi-Cal)

The govt has shown me that it is not capable of taking on something as important as health care. I feel it is best left to private industry where the search for the almighty dollar will foster change. We're already seeing it now. In my health care options at work the HMO and PPO options are being priced out, but new and innovative health care solutions are appearing that most people take part in(Ex: Lumenos)

That's the beauty in trusting the market. When a service becomes overpriced or burdensome(PPO and HMO respectively) there will always be something to compete against it.

[alphabassettgrrl]

Yeah, something will replace it. I just hope it works better.

[MouseWife]

Originally Posted by PanTheMan

....Everytime his now mended broken back gives him trouble, he WANTS TO SUE. Everytime he needs to inject insulin HE WANTS TO SUE, because he convinced the Hospital screwed up, and the list goes on... (All Doctors are A-Holes, The Nurses are B*tches...)

Guess what folks, WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS BILLS! We also need some sort of 3 strikes law for those bent on drinking or drugging themselves to death, but that wont happen.


Then my Mother wonders Why she has to pay $600 a MONTH at age 72 for Kaiser.

Hey, I thought for a moment we were discussing the same person! But, no. This guy doesn't have a car. Thank God. Same type of story. He has been through rehab so many times. He is so lucky that the Homeless shelter takes him back. When he is in the hospital, he complains and complains. This after being brough out of an alcohol induced coma of about a week.

I wonder what his bills are.....

I worry about people who depend on what types of medical coverage has been promised to us, etc.

I've understood this always about how those that have take care of those that don't. Just hard to swallow when all of the working people I know try to stay healthy and well and not miss work, going even when they feel ill or struggling with child care. I've been jaded by seeing the people on the opposite side of the coin.

A very heartwrenching show I saw this week on Oprah. People surviving on $60 a week? This market said that 80% of its customers were on food stamps?

Oh, sorry for going off on a different thought.....