Riding crop costumes go bye bye

[tracilicious]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

Being an obese person myself, I've always thought myself "large" even during my college days when I lost a lot of weight I thought that of myself, and saw it in pictures taken of me at the time. Today when I look at those pics, I wonder how I could have possibly thought that about myself when the photographic evidence is so contrary to my percieved reality of the time. There is some odd psychology at play so that I think people often do feel helpless in their attempts to loose weight.

Amen to that. From ages 15 to 21 I weighed 130 - 140 pounds (I'm 5'8"). Now, I don't know if that qualifies as "skinny" or not, but I wasn't medically overweight. I never stopped seeing myself as fat. Now I look back and kick myself for not appreciating my body more.

I think what people who have never been overweight don't realize is how easily the weight can pile on, especially if you've done a lot of screwy dieting in the past that messed up your metabolism. I gained nothing the first six months of each pregnancy, then 40 pounds the last three months. Yet I didn't change my eating habits at all. Turns out I had something weird going on with my body, but that really doesn't make me feel better, nor does it make the weight easier to lose.

I also think that if you've never faced the challenge then you don't really know how difficult it is to lose weight. If you have a lot to lose, it can be a daunting task. Food is much more than just something to feed your body in our culture. It's a very social thing. I imagine that some can feel a sort of disconnect when dieting.

I think it's a sensitive topic because it's not ok to judge someone for being short or bald or tall or gay, but it somehow is ok to judge them for being fat. Because after all, it's their own damn fault anyways, right?

[Alex]

Most of the time, yes it is.

Yes, there are plenty of people who are fat for medical reasons, but not nearly so many as make that claim. I'm fat because I eat poorly and don't exercise enough (and when I do exercise I prefer strength training to aerobic activity).

I should be judged because I'm fat, I'm fat because of a character flaw. I'm fat when I don't want to be because I'm too lazy to be otherwise. No, losing weight is not easy (though for the 18 months I really stuck to a solid exercise regime I lost 70 pounds without any real dieting) but that doesn't make it less of a choice.

But for ease of thinking and politeness, I just act as if I'm the only one who chooses to be fat and every other fat person is fat due to the steroids they're taking for some rare medical malady of which I'm unaware (just like Jerry Lewis).

I look at being fat kind of the same way I look at bad dental hygeine. Yes, some people have conditions that make it very, very difficult to keep their teeth in good order (I had a coworker who had a condition that caused his own saliva to yellow his teeth). But most people who have filthy teeth are in that state because of the way they choose to live their lives. If they have disgusting teeth because they want to have filthy teeth, more power to them.

Same with fatness. If you're fat because you want to be fat, great. If you're fat because your body can't help it for some reason, then my condolences. But if you're fat when you don't want to be fat and you simply aren't willing to do the things that will make you not be fat, then you don't really get sympathy from me (though I'm not going to treat you rudely for it or anything). And a lot of people in this last category seem to want sympathy (such as the coworker who once bitched to me about how hard it is to lose weight while eating fetuccine alfredo with tiramisu for dessert).

I have no idea into which categories the various fat people posting in this thread fall, and it doesn't really matter. But since the rhetorical question above seems to assume what I think is the wrong answer, I felt an urge to respond. And as always, once responding to respond too long.

[tracilicious]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

I have no idea into which categories the various fat people posting in this thread fall, and it doesn't really matter. But since the rhetorical question above seems to assume what I think is the wrong answer, I felt an urge to respond. And as always, once responding to respond too long.

Perhaps my question implied something I didn't intend it to. Do I think it is their own damn fault? Yes, most definitely in 99% of cases. Even though my body may have had it's own agenda when I was pregnant, everbody gains weight when they are pregnant and nothing is stopping me from losing the weight now. Indeed, I am working on it, even though it is going more slowly than I would like. Mostly because I have a hard time overcoming my food vices.

Do I think it is ok to judge people because it is their fault? No. Judging implies a deeper assesment of character. I don't think that people who are overweight are any weaker of character than thin people. My husband eats junk food all day long. He literally has never had a salad. Never. Yet he is 6'2" and 150 lbs. Is his character stronger than mine just because he's thin? I don't think so.

[Alex]

I don't think being overweight is a sign of weak character. Plenty of fat people are happy being fat or have weighed the various choices and choose a course that includes being fat.

I do think that complaining that things are out of your control that very much are in your control but just difficult is a character flaw. I don't know anybody on this message board well enough to know if anybody has this character flaw. But I know plenty of fat people in real life who do. But it is not a character flaw that follows from being fat, it is just one that for some is revealed by being fat.

People bitch about the choices they've made all the time and to absolve themselves recast them as something other than a choice. As destiny, biology, conspiracy.

So, again, I'm not judging anybody unless I have enough information to judge. But you suggested judging for fatness should be in the same category as judging for baldness or shortness. Fatness, for most of the people who are, is not the same as bald and short and therefore the same logic for not judging a short (it is out of their control) person does not apply to 99% of fat people (it is in their control). That's all I was replying to.

Most of the time you shouldn't judge a fat person because you have no idea why they're fat and how they feel about it.

100% of the time you shouldn't judge a short person simply because they have absolutely no control (though perhaps that is changing in our modern technological/medical age); also they're so small and cherubic, those short people, how could you possibly think bad things of them?

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

also they're so small and cherubic, those short people, how could you possibly think bad things of them?

I will forever think of you as being small and cherubic, sinc you are shorter than I.

[Alex]

That's fine with me, it is good to be absolved of all bad thoughts. How tall are you? I'm not denying you're taller than me, I just never noticed.

[tracilicious]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

So, again, I'm not judging anybody unless I have enough information to judge. But you suggested judging for fatness should be in the same category as judging for baldness or shortness. Fatness, for most of the people who are, is not the same as bald and short and therefore the same logic for not judging a short (it is out of their control) person does not apply to 99% of fat people (it is in their control). That's all I was replying to.

Most of the time you shouldn't judge a fat person because you have no idea why they're fat and how they feel about it.

100% of the time you shouldn't judge a short person simply because they have absolutely no control (though perhaps that is changing in our modern technological/medical age); also they're so small and cherubic, those short people, how could you possibly think bad things of them?

Oh, I see. I listed short and bald and such because ISM said that this thread is much more sensitive than those threads would be, not because one should ever judge the others.

I feel like one shouldn't judge a person for being fat. Ever. Simply because it has nothing to do with who they are. It's just how they are.

[Alex]

But that is where I disagree, I know plenty of people who are fat and it has everything to do with who they are (whiny, incapable of taking responsibility for personal choices, lazy, etc.).

But yes, generally there is no reason to judge someone for being fat because one don't have the details or a need to make personal decisions based on such a judgment (see also, the thread about judging a while ago)

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

But that is where I disagree, I know plenty of people who are fat and it has everything to do with who they are (whiny, incapable of taking responsibility for personal choices, lazy, etc.).

But yes, generally there is no reason to judge someone for being fat because one don't have the details or a need to make personal decisions based on such a judgment (see also, the thread about judging a while ago)

This might just be a restatement of the above - but I'd venture the judgements as such are flawed since there is no universal correspondence. There are plenty of lazy skinny people as there are industrious fat people - really on those topics if fat is part of the equation you really can judge them on how those things relate to eating or exercize habits. They tell you nothing about how one might run a company, or be in bed (aside from the tactile experience I suppose). So such judgements really don't seem to have much value.

[MickeyLumbo]

Originally Posted by tracilicious

I also think that if you've never faced the challenge then you don't really know how difficult it is to lose weight. If you have a lot to lose, it can be a daunting task. Food is much more than just something to feed your body in our culture. It's a very social thing. I imagine that some can feel a sort of disconnect when dieting.

I think it's a sensitive topic because it's not ok to judge someone for being short or bald or tall or gay, but it somehow is ok to judge them for being fat. Because after all, it's their own damn fault anyways, right?

you are so correct. i see it especially at the parties i attend with all the goodies and finger foods, etc... i want them so much, like everybody else, but, i must carefully limit and monitor every bite. it sucks.

but i still don't wanna see a fat Tarzan on a float.