Tookie Williams denied clemency

wendybeth · 12-13-2005, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."

Damn you, GC!

This is where I am conflicted- there have simply been too many cases of innocent people wrongfully convicted. I really am on the fence about this, and it's not a comfortable place for me. I can usually weigh the pros and cons and determine my stand on an issue- this one is simply too complicated.

Great quote, oh Crickety one.

Alex · 12-13-2005, 12:57 PM

That quote is meaninless as it could be extended to prohibit just about any action by society against the individual.

I have no problem saying that some people should be put to death, I just don't have sufficient faith in a bureaucracy to be sufficiently accurate or consistent in making that determination.

When I am master of the universe (a process that can't start until I get around to bleaching my hair), there will be a death penalty.

innerSpaceman · 12-13-2005, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

That quote is meaninless as it could be extended to prohibit just about any action by society against the individual.

Meaningless???!??

Gandalf the Grey - meaningless?!?!? Those Sir, are words of ignorance.

In all seriousness though, I don't see how that can be expanded to include any act. Oh, you can expand that philosophy indefinately if you want, but it's clearly not the intention of Gandalf or Tolkien or Mr. Cricket that you do so. No one, not the Istari nor anyone else, is claiming that denying the state the purview over human life is akin to denying the state the purview over, say, taxes.

Alex · 12-13-2005, 04:47 PM

It extends itself through the logic underpinning the quote. Also it is fallacious in establishing a false connection between giving and taking life.

innerSpaceman · 12-13-2005, 05:06 PM

There is no false connection alluded to in the quote. The very point of the quote is that it's a true connection.

I suppose those who would still instill the death penalty throughout the universe should they be elected God in the next deification election might think the connection false, but that does not change the validity of a quote authored by a non-candidate.

Ghoulish Delight · 12-13-2005, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wendybeth

Great quote, oh Crickety one.

Double snaps to that. Sums my stance up perfectly. No matter how air-tight a case seems, no matter how many appeals you allow, no matter how much you spend, no matter how careful you are, the chance of an innocent person slipping through the cracks remains. And no matter how small that chance is, it's too large for my taste.

12-13-2005, 12:57 PM	#2
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	That quote is meaninless as it could be extended to prohibit just about any action by society against the individual. I have no problem saying that some people should be put to death, I just don't have sufficient faith in a bureaucracy to be sufficiently accurate or consistent in making that determination. When I am master of the universe (a process that can't start until I get around to bleaching my hair), there will be a death penalty.
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12-13-2005, 04:47 PM	#4
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	It extends itself through the logic underpinning the quote. Also it is fallacious in establishing a false connection between giving and taking life.
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12-13-2005, 05:06 PM	#5
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	There is no false connection alluded to in the quote. The very point of the quote is that it's a true connection. I suppose those who would still instill the death penalty throughout the universe should they be elected God in the next deification election might think the connection false, but that does not change the validity of a quote authored by a non-candidate.
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