The polarization of "Crash"

[€uroMeinke]

Let me know when we can talk about the James Spader/Holly Hunter sexfest - that scene in the Mercedes dealership was hot - oh sorry, haven't seen the remake.

[Gemini Cricket]

'Crash' is not a good movie.

I understand what the movie was trying to say, but it just didn't say it very well. The characters were weak, the dialogue was unrealistic and the acting was terrible (but I will lay the blame on this with the director, I have seen all of these actors in better roles, so maybe I should say this movie was poorly directed).

First and foremost, the film felt like it was written and directed by two people who have never experienced racism firsthand nor seem to know what it actually feels like to be on the receiving end of it. (There's a wonderful scene in the not-so-good 'Poetic Justice' where Maya Angelou and another older actress berate Regina King's character when the late-teens King says she's in love. One of the older women says, 'What do you know about love?') My question to these filmmakers is 'What do you know about racism?'

Now I'm not saying one should be a minority to write/direct a movie about racism. But what I'm saying is that it helps to know your subject matter. That is why 'Do the Right Thing' accomplished a lot more with fewer characters, a simpler story and smaller budget.

First off, in one of the first scenes we see Jennifer Esposito's chastize an Asian lady for the way she drives. Anyone in a high profile position would never, ever talk to someone like that and expect to keep their job. Yes, she might talk that way behind the lady's back, but never to her face. Sorry, that would never happen. And if it did, that person would have never gotten as high as she did in her dept without being exposed as someone idiotic early on in her career.

Secondly, Matt Dillon's character is beyond liking the moment the frisking scene occurrs. The director did get an effective performance in this scene from Thandie Newton. But it was so good that nothing, and I mean nothing, Dillon's character could do in the film could possibly redeem his character. Including saving her life later on in the film, including helping his father take a dump...

The dialogue in this film was so unconvincing that it became laughable. No one in LA, no one in the world talks like the people talk in this film.
At one point, William Fitchner's character says, 'Black people, huh?' in a wink wink knowing way to Don Cheadle. They were illustrating his bigotry, yes. But who talks like that? Someone might say, 'Typical' like it just slipped out. Oops. But what he said was diliberate and hokey. (Not to mention that he says it to an African American.)

And this happens throughout the film!

ie. An owner of a gun store calls Shaun Toub's character 'Osama' and kicks him out. Um, if he didn't like people from the Middle East, wouldn't he just refuse to help them period? But he does it well into a sale. Wrong. Not only this, but after that his daughter buys a gun from him anyway. Anyone who was treated like that would not buy anything from this man.

ie. Brendan Fraser's character stomps around saying, 'I'm the District Attorney of Los Angeles!' The script should show us that not have the character announce it. Someone should introduce him as the DA, not have the character tell us. That's just lame. (What's more is that Brendan Fraser is a 'George of the Jungle', he is an 'Encino Man', he is a Warner Brothers Security Guard... but a DA? I don't buy it.)

ie. Ludacris: 'I ran over a China Man.' Who says 'China Man'?

ie. Sandra Bullock's character is unaware of anyone else existing in her universe. To totally go off on a guy that's in the room without talking to him is weird.

ie. Bullock's maid's performance made her seem like English is her second language (yes, we get it) but also that she's somewhat mentally challenged.

The deal with racist people is that most of their racist tendencies are never overtly displayed to the people they are targeting. It happens inconspicuously. It's a snide whisper to a friend, it's a defiant look at someone, it's not listening to someone, etc. Yes, the in-your-face attitude comes out in anger directly to the target, but according to this film everyone in LA is a volcano and everyone targets everyone all the time. If that were the case, in anger management terms, the venting would be healthy for the venter and the victims would learn to just get over it just to cope. Racism is a problem because a lot of it is covert. If it were out in the open more, it would be easy to target and avoid the racist. Racist people aren't always out in the open.
(I also believe everyone has it in them to be racist. The one thing I agree with the filmmakers on. There are good and bad people in every color.)

And if this post weren't long enough already, I'd like to say that the scene between the locksmith and his daughter in her bedroom was fantastic. Great performances.

Oh, and Ryan Phillipe looked like he was twelve wearing a cop uniform...

I don't mind the intertwining stories and characters. It's cool. But you have to buy the premise first. If you don't, none of it works.

[Ponine]

I am actually in the middle for this movie. I didnt love it, I didnt hate it... it disturbed me, and it made me laugh. That said...

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

Secondly, Matt Dillon's character is beyond liking the moment the frisking scene occurrs. The director did get an effective performance in this scene from Thandie Newton. But it was so good that nothing, and I mean nothing, Dillon's character could do in the film could possibly redeem his character.

Agreed. Though I so identified with Thandie Newton I cried almost everytime she was on screen, and that scene killed me, and I had to walk away.

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

ie. Brendan Fraser's character stomps around saying, 'I'm the District Attorney of Los Angeles!' The script should show us that not have the character announce it. Someone should introduce him as the DA, not have the character tell us. That's just lame. (What's more is that Brendan Fraser is a 'George of the Jungle', he is an 'Encino Man', he is a Warner Brothers Security Guard... but a DA? I don't buy it.)

ie. Ludacris: 'I ran over a China Man.' Who says 'China Man'?

ie. Sandra Bullock's character is unaware of anyone else existing in her universe. To totally go off on a guy that's in the room without talking to him is weird.

ie. Bullock's maid's performance made her seem like English is her second language (yes, we get it) but also that she's somewhat mentally challenged.

wow...I disagree with you...

Brendan Fraser... YOu dont buy that? Am I the only one that does stand up in my cube, or walk outside and say loudy.. G@@ Dammn it... I am the payroll tech. I am a payroll tech, I know what I am doing....
I was sold on that speech

China man... I still hear that. A lot

Bullock... nope, I've seen people do that, heard about it, and done it myself.

Bullocks house keeper... nope I didnt get that impression at all.
I saw a woman who was afraid of overstepping her bounds who has been treated as a second class citizen by this woman, when in fact she knows thats not the way it has to be.
She wanted to help, but knew that she would not be allowed because of the prior history with Bullock.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by Ponine

Bullock... nope, I've seen people do that, heard about it, and done it myself.

Yes, but I doubt very highly that Jana Cooley (Steve Cooley's wife) would act the same way in the same circumstance even after being carjacked/mugged.

Bullock was so foul, why would anyone want to work for her?

Nope, didn't buy that at all...

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

First and foremost, the film felt like it was written and directed by two people who have never experienced racism firsthand nor seem to know what it actually feels like to be on the receiving end of it. ... My question to these filmmakers is 'What do you know about racism?'

The deal with racist people is that most of their racist tendencies are never overtly displayed to the people they are targeting. It happens inconspicuously. ... Racism is a problem because a lot of it is covert.

It just seemed to me that you were implying a familiarity with racism was important to creating a film about racism, and one of the reasons you disliked the movie is that you believed the filmmakers misunderstood the nature of racism in having their 12 characters display it so obviously.

If I read you right, you weren't buying it because it didn't seem "real" to you. Well, it seems real to plenty of people living in L.A. To think that you couldn't find a dozen people who are over-the-top racists in this town is laughable. Certainly a story involving near-impossible coincidences in plot as its structure can be allowed the coincidence of involving overtly racist characters to be involved in that plot.

I'm not the one who claimed you needed a familiarity with racism to make or appreciate this film. I'm sorry if you were offended that I found your own experience somewhat limited if you think it has to be covert to smack of reality. Try being black or Korean in L.A. and then tell me how covert the racism is in this town.


BTW, the anachronistic term "China Man" was speficially chosen by the filmmakers to be the most insulting term applicable to a Korean. Yeah, no one really says it anymore. It was intended to be jolting and noticeable. A story where 12 characters are connected by vehicle incidents in a series of unlikely coincidences is not going for reality in every aspect anyways.


* * * * *

Ooooh, and look how polarizing even a thread about 'Crash' is!!! Gemini Cricket and I are having our worst message board fight since ... well, since our discussion of 'Rent.'

(Maybe we can strike a bin Ladan truce over our mutual love for Brokeback Mountain.)

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

It just seemed to me that you were implying a familiarity with racism was important to creating a film about racism, and one of the reasons you disliked the movie is that you believed the filmmakers misunderstood the nature of racism in having their 12 characters display it so obviously.

You're telling me that I haven't truly experienced racism because I'm Hawaiian. Okay, with that logic... the director and writer of this film are white.

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

If I read you right, you weren't buying it because it didn't seem "real" to you. Well, it seems real to plenty of people living in L.A.

I find that to be a cop out. I've lived in LA for 8 years. I've seen it.

The portrayals were not realistic. If an LA cop fingerbanged someone while frisking them, they would lose their job (not to mention that every formal complaint of an LA officer goes in their file). If a CSI investigator (or whatever she was) spouted overtly racists remarks to someone, she would lose her job. If a DA's wife was deemed as a racist (and witnessed as one by several people in her house), the press would have a field day bringing that DA down. That's how it works now and these people in their jobs know that. They would not say these things outloud to their target for fear of repercussions.

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Certainly a story involving near-impossible coincidences in plot as its structure can be allowed the coincidence of involving overtly racist characters to be involved in that plot.

Not if your point is to mirror every day life. I'm not saying all racists are covert. But what are the odds that all 12 of these people are?

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Try being black or Korean in L.A. and then tell me how covert the racism is in this town.

So the filmmakers need not be experienced in being on the receiving end of racism in order to be credible, but I do?

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

(Maybe we can strike a bin Ladan truce over our mutual love for Brokeback Mountain.)

Yeah, but you were bi-sexual and now you're not. What do I care about your opinion on two rumpus rangers who were born gay.

(Okay, that last one was a joke.)

[Ponine]

OKay, I have to pull this out and question it...

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

The portrayals were not realistic. If an LA cop fingerbanged someone while frisking them, they would lose their job (not to mention that every formal complaint of an LA officer goes in their file).

But thats the kicker isnt it? She didnt press charges, she didn't file a complaint.
She chose to live with it, and attempt to deal.
Who knows why. Becuase it could ruin her husbands career?
Or did I miss that she filed a complaint?

I know that I wouldnt have had the nerve to tell ANYONE if that had been me. It wouldnt have been worth it to re-live it just to file a complaint.

GC?

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by Ponine

GC?

Me? Oh, I'd say something. But no one wants to hear me brag.
'Me and Matt?' I'd say. 'We're like that.' Then I'd cross my fingers.
Ha ha. Joking! That was a joke. No flames!


Seriously though, I'd report him. My husband would survive.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

The portrayals were not realistic. If an LA cop fingerbanged someone while frisking them, they would lose their job...If a CSI investigator (or whatever she was) spouted overtly racists remarks to someone, she would lose her job. If a DA's wife was deemed as a racist (and witnessed as one by several people in her house), the press would have a field day bringing that DA down.

We are living on different planets.

Cops in particular, get away (quite literally) with murder, and every crime in between that and pencil theft.

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

I'm not saying all racists are covert. But what are the odds that all 12 of these people are?

About the same as all 12 of these people being interconnected by automobile incidents. Either you accept that coincidence is the essence of the story or you don't. But since it IS, the presence of coincidence is simply not a legitimate criticism (any more than my criticism of King Kong is that I would have found a giant hamster more realistic).

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

So the filmmakers need not be experienced in being on the receiving end of racism in order to be credible, but I do?

No, you miss my point - which is that you shouldn't hold the filmmakers to different level of racism-familiarity than you have yourself. I was pointing out that your own familiarity seems limited in respects, so why can't the filmmakers' be limited in others?




Oh, and since Jake and Ennis are both as bisexual as I am, I am quite authoritative on BBM.