This is some sort of sick joke, right? - Page 10

€uroMeinke · 03-15-2006, 11:31 AM

Well - I've mousepod to thank my research expedition about Sumptuary Laws (So far I've linke this link best) which sought to curb the extravagence of fashion which was seen as "wicked" if not "sinfull."

Personally, I'm fascinated by the subject of fashion becasue I think it has a far greater influence than we let on and tend to react to fashion as to what is "trendy" or "fashionable" at a given time.

I tend to see fashion as one of our primary forms of communications - telling others about our position, beliefs, occupation, or alliances all without speaking a word. So to me, it's not a stretch to see how someone might want to judge, criticize, or condemn for fashion's sake since we do it all the time with people's words. But perhaps that's still in the subtext.

flippyshark · 03-15-2006, 12:42 PM

"We are the goon squad and we're coming to town - beep beep"

€uroMeinke · 03-15-2006, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flippyshark

"We are the goon squad and we're coming to town - beep beep"

Heh - that was going through my mind all evening long yesterday

DisneyDaniel · 03-15-2006, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

Also, a similar Donald short was worn by one of the red carpet arrivals at the Downtown Disney premiere of Princess Diaries 2 so it really is vintage, just with rhinestones. At least 18 months old. Maybe putting Donald below the text adds $90 in value. Here's my picture (I have no idea who the woman is and neither did any of the other photographers):

The person in the picture looks like songwriter Diane Warren, who wrote the song "I Decide," performed by Lindsay Lohan, for the "Princess Diaries 2" soundtrack.

Diane Warren has written a long list of hit songs from the 1980s through today in pop, rock, country and R&B. Some of the massively-successful songs she has written include:
Aerosmith - "I Don't Want To Miss A Thing"
Celine Dion - "Because You Loved Me"
Toni Braxton - "Unbreak My Heart"
LeAnn Rimes and Trisha Yearwood - "How Do I Live"
Cher - "If I Could Turn Back Time"
Expose' - "I'll Never Get Over You Getting Over Me"
Expose' - "Your Baby Never Looked Good in Blue"
Belinda Carlisle - "I Get Weak"
Laura Branigan - "Solitaire"
Taylor Dayne - "Love Will Lead You Back"
Starship - "Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now"

So, is it a hit shirt if hit-songwriter Diane Warren wears it?

Alex · 03-15-2006, 03:35 PM

iSm:

Based on my mom's years as a seamstress and duplicating designer clothes brought in by customers and listening to her comments, the correlation between price and quality is weak. Generally you'll get more expensive materials but unless it was sewn specifically for you (unless it is a very small line) it'll have still been sewn by the same textile places where everybody gets paid more for sewing faster, not better. Essentially the same treatment as the equivelant clothes at Target. Though if the line owner really cares you may see it slowed down and better stitching used, there really isn't much you can do to improve the quality of a t-shirt to justify a 500% increase in price on quality alone.

However, if people are willing to pay more for the label, more power to them. My method of fashion shopping is this:

1. Decide I need, for example, three new shirts for just casual wearing.
2. Decide which department store is closest that would sell shirts appropriate for casual wearing (only Target and Wal-Mart are, a priori, disqualified).
3. Go to store and enter.
4. The first three shirts, closest to the door, that I do not find repulsive will be tried on and purchased.
5. Go home.

No comparison shopping, no second store unless it turns out the first store doesn't have the kind of clothes I'm looking for. Little consideration for price. Ideally, no clothes shopping expedition will last more than 15 minutes total time in store.

Fashion is almost totally irrelevant to me personally, it is all about avoiding the actual pain of shopping. Thus I've been wearing the same model of Saucony sneakers, Rockport casual shoes, and Florsheim dress shoes for about a decade. No shopping necessary when new pairs are needed.

There's no sin in fashion (except for the ugg boot/mini skirt combination) unless you view it as an actual presentation of a person rather than possibly a representation. The clothes a person wears can tell you something about a person but you have to remain aware that the clothes frequently lie.

€uroMeinke · 03-15-2006, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

Fashion is almost totally irrelevant to me personally, it is all about avoiding the actual pain of shopping.

What about Tattoos?

Alex · 03-15-2006, 04:37 PM

I don't consider them fashion (it is only incidental that one of my is somewhat visible to others). Each of mine is a statement to myself, not to the external observer. Similarly, my toenails are almost always painted, but nobody ever sees my toes but me and Lani (I am rarely without shoes outside of the house). But if you consider them fashion then I wouldn't really be able to argue the point.

For a certain type of tattoo getter they are most definitely fashion and that, in my opinion, is the type of tattoo getter most likely to have regrets down the road.

alphabassettgrrl · 03-15-2006, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prudence

I have a wardrobe rule at my house: if it's not something that I might wear to an interview or a formal occasion, it has to be able to survive the washing machine.

I feel exactly the same! Well said.

"Fashion" to me means mostly what is easy to obtain at the present. I do choose things which appeal to me, though that's been pretty plain and boring lately. I need to do some searching. My style lately has been comfort.

While I applaud Disney for trying an actual new look, I wish it wasn't so ugly. Even if it looked good, I wouldn't pay that kind of price.

I'm pretty disappointed with most of the clothes I've bought lately. I have a few things from high school in the 80's which are still in service. Nothing I've bought in the last 5 has had that kind of survivability. I know- if they make clothes shoddy they wear out and you have to buy more.

I know the dynamic, it just makes me mad.

€uroMeinke · 03-15-2006, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

I don't consider them fashion (it is only incidental that one of my is somewhat visible to others). Each of mine is a statement to myself, not to the external observer. Similarly, my toenails are almost always painted, but nobody ever sees my toes but me and Lani (I am rarely without shoes outside of the house). But if you consider them fashion then I wouldn't really be able to argue the point.

I'm not sure that fashion needs to be public - while public displays of lingerie have become more comonplace, I think I number of people still limit that viewing to their intimates.

In agreement with you (I presume), I think people are happier when the dress "for themselves" and not for the external observer - AKA Posseur.

But again, I appear to use the term "Fashion" a bit broader than most, who seem to use it a synonymous with "trendy." I think many people come to think of "fashion" as having a negative connotation as a result of that, which unfortunately prevents or limits the discussion of what our own "fashion" might be.

Alex · 03-15-2006, 04:59 PM

I don't think "fashion" needs to be intended for a larger audience but I do think it really does involve some type of presentment to an audience, even if it is very small.

Now, whether this audience can be so small as "yourself" I don't know.

Painting my toenails has little to do with presentation (to a group or myself) but rather I just enjoy the 20 minutes of quiet together time with Lani while she paints them. And yet I won't let her use "feminine" colors like pink or red but instead generally stick to greens and blues. So while the decision to have painted toenails is fashionless, does the color preference introduce fashion even though it is purely for myself? I don't know, and that's why I said I couldn't really argue.

In the same vein as "everything is political" is any statement of preference a statement of fashion? I can certainly see it argued convincingly either way. Personally I have put the line as any decision of preference where what another (whether one or many) will think of the it is an influence in making the decision is a decision of fashion.

So for me, personal style can exist outside considerations of fashion but I'm being arbitrary and am not married to the idea.

03-15-2006, 11:31 AM	#91
€uroMeinke L'Hédoniste Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: A.S.C.O.T. Posts: 8,671	Well - I've mousepod to thank my research expedition about Sumptuary Laws (So far I've linke this link best) which sought to curb the extravagence of fashion which was seen as "wicked" if not "sinfull." Personally, I'm fascinated by the subject of fashion becasue I think it has a far greater influence than we let on and tend to react to fashion as to what is "trendy" or "fashionable" at a given time. I tend to see fashion as one of our primary forms of communications - telling others about our position, beliefs, occupation, or alliances all without speaking a word. So to me, it's not a stretch to see how someone might want to judge, criticize, or condemn for fashion's sake since we do it all the time with people's words. But perhaps that's still in the subtext. __________________ I would believe only in a God that knows how to Dance. Friedrich Nietzsche
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03-15-2006, 12:42 PM	#92
flippyshark Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,852	"We are the goon squad and we're coming to town - beep beep"
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03-15-2006, 03:35 PM	#95
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	iSm: Based on my mom's years as a seamstress and duplicating designer clothes brought in by customers and listening to her comments, the correlation between price and quality is weak. Generally you'll get more expensive materials but unless it was sewn specifically for you (unless it is a very small line) it'll have still been sewn by the same textile places where everybody gets paid more for sewing faster, not better. Essentially the same treatment as the equivelant clothes at Target. Though if the line owner really cares you may see it slowed down and better stitching used, there really isn't much you can do to improve the quality of a t-shirt to justify a 500% increase in price on quality alone. However, if people are willing to pay more for the label, more power to them. My method of fashion shopping is this: 1. Decide I need, for example, three new shirts for just casual wearing. 2. Decide which department store is closest that would sell shirts appropriate for casual wearing (only Target and Wal-Mart are, a priori, disqualified). 3. Go to store and enter. 4. The first three shirts, closest to the door, that I do not find repulsive will be tried on and purchased. 5. Go home. No comparison shopping, no second store unless it turns out the first store doesn't have the kind of clothes I'm looking for. Little consideration for price. Ideally, no clothes shopping expedition will last more than 15 minutes total time in store. Fashion is almost totally irrelevant to me personally, it is all about avoiding the actual pain of shopping. Thus I've been wearing the same model of Saucony sneakers, Rockport casual shoes, and Florsheim dress shoes for about a decade. No shopping necessary when new pairs are needed. There's no sin in fashion (except for the ugg boot/mini skirt combination) unless you view it as an actual presentation of a person rather than possibly a representation. The clothes a person wears can tell you something about a person but you have to remain aware that the clothes frequently lie.
	Submit to Quotes

03-15-2006, 04:37 PM	#97
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	I don't consider them fashion (it is only incidental that one of my is somewhat visible to others). Each of mine is a statement to myself, not to the external observer. Similarly, my toenails are almost always painted, but nobody ever sees my toes but me and Lani (I am rarely without shoes outside of the house). But if you consider them fashion then I wouldn't really be able to argue the point. For a certain type of tattoo getter they are most definitely fashion and that, in my opinion, is the type of tattoo getter most likely to have regrets down the road.
	Submit to Quotes

03-15-2006, 04:59 PM	#100
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	I don't think "fashion" needs to be intended for a larger audience but I do think it really does involve some type of presentment to an audience, even if it is very small. Now, whether this audience can be so small as "yourself" I don't know. Painting my toenails has little to do with presentation (to a group or myself) but rather I just enjoy the 20 minutes of quiet together time with Lani while she paints them. And yet I won't let her use "feminine" colors like pink or red but instead generally stick to greens and blues. So while the decision to have painted toenails is fashionless, does the color preference introduce fashion even though it is purely for myself? I don't know, and that's why I said I couldn't really argue. In the same vein as "everything is political" is any statement of preference a statement of fashion? I can certainly see it argued convincingly either way. Personally I have put the line as any decision of preference where what another (whether one or many) will think of the it is an influence in making the decision is a decision of fashion. So for me, personal style can exist outside considerations of fashion but I'm being arbitrary and am not married to the idea.
	Submit to Quotes