This is some sort of sick joke, right?

[innerSpaceman]

Nope, not buying that. It wasn't the price tag. It was the price tag on shoddy merchandise. (Ok, most of it ugly to boot, but that was not really the point).

If the overpriced Shag shirts I've purchased were poorly-made, I wouldn't have bought them.


And it's precisely because of the general nature of overpriced goods, foods, and services at the Resort that these items caught our eye and raised our ire. They seemed, to us, to have crossed a line. A line very hard to cross. That WE, jaded APers who've seen it all, were amazed and flabergasted and astounded made this topic worthy of a thread.

That is has morphed into several discussions, some on the disagreeable side, has little to do with the intent of the O.P.

(And I find it highly amusing that the most contentious threads on the LoT are found in the politics forum .... and the Disneyland forum )

[mousepod]

But iSm, I went to Disneyland and got a free map.
Then I went to a shop on Main Street and paid $5 for a different map.
Then I saw a Shag map for $400.

Let's say the free map cost a penny so we can do some math.
What makes the map at the Emporium 500 times better than the one at the gate?
What makes the Shag map 80 times better than the one in the Emporium?

It's surely not just the paper quality.

[Isaac]

I disagree with ya mousepod.

I don't think a white tshirt with a picture iron-on or globs of gold glitter glued onto it is worth $100, nor do I see how that qualifies has 'high fashion'. I sorta get what you mean about fans that drop that kind of money on clothes reguarly but I just don't see those type of spending habits at DL (at least not for clothing). So far I haven't seen anyone wearing one of those shirts but who knows. If the clothes continue to be sold for that price & new ones are being released, then I guess there really is a market for these at the resort.

What do I think personally ?:

If this is 'high fasion' then Ghoulish Delight & Cadaverous Pallor are the Beckhams of our fashion world come every MouseAdventure.

Picture iron-ons made on your computer & clued on rhinestones from Club Libby Lu on plain $2 cotton tshirts bought at Target are not high fashion.

I don't care if it's made by Fred Segal or Fred Flintstone.

It's a rip off.

[innerSpaceman]

mousepod, your point about the Shag map is well taken. Of course, the $400 one is a wall map. But let's assume the same map, sold in small size, is $80. Its value is clearly greater than that of the free turnstile-crossing map because it is designed by a famed artist, whose style is appreciated by the buyer.

zapppop is right about the rhinestone-encrusted $2 Target T. That's not art (in our opinion), while Shag's map is.


By all means, let's have different opinions about what is art, what is not, what is stylish, and what is foolish. We may all be cool folks, but when our opinions do not differ about anything ... discussion gets pretty boring.

[mousepod]

Zapppop,

I think we're arguing semantics here.

If you bought it thinking it was one thing and it turned out to be something different, it's a rip off.

I'm fairly certain that the people who spend this kind of money on clothing know enough to understand what they're paying for.

If the thread was about how ugly the new shirts were, I would understand. I think that lots of things are ugly and I'm not shy about sharing my opinion.

I think I bristle at the comparison of a "fashion" shirt to a "souvenir" shirt or even a "Target" shirt in the terms of construction or utility. When someone uses those terms, it's a cheap argument (forgive the pun), as was my post above which questions the value of a $400 piece of paper with a reproduction of a drawing that's readily viewable for free on the internet.

I see it as reverse-snobbism in the guise of consumer advocacy. But that's me.

[SacTown Chronic]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

For me, it is the disdain for the creative that gets to me. It is so easy to justify being uncreative - and some are just not appreciative of creative expression.

I'm far more likely to snarkily laugh at someone wearing the hottest trends (especially if I know that person wears every trendy article of clothing that comes down the pike) than I am at someone who has their own style and occasionally looks like an overdressed peacock. I admire the whack looking individual's creativity and sense of style, no matter how far-out they might appear to me.

[Isaac]

Mousepod:

I definitely think the shirts are ugly. Even if these particular shirts were sold for a fraction of their asking price (ex: $10), I still wouldn't buy them or recommend them. The actual designs are not too appealing to me. On a creative level, the look of the shirts are so mediocre and uninspired. It's as if all the designer had in mind was to plop a photo & rhinestones on a tshirt. I've always perceived 'high fashion' to be more creative. So when I saw the pricetag that only further turned me away from those clothes. I don't know everything about clothes but to me an uninspired shirt is not high fashion and not worth my money.

[mousepod]

Hey Zapp -

I agree with you. Personally, I think that much of the stuff is ugly, too.

and iSm,
for the record, I don't get Shag as a "famed artist" any more than I "got" LeRoy Neiman, Pat Nagel or Peter Max. If I think that slapping a reproduction of a popular graphic artist on a piece of paper or apparel is a ridiculous justification for asking a premium, I might ask those who appreciate it why they enjoy it, rather than calling it a "sick joke". And don't even get me started on serigraphs and sericels...

["Limited edition 500 serigraph. Retail value: $7500. Your price: only $4400!"]

[Alex]

On one of the side topics, I too used to be intimidated about going to the gym because I assumed that everybody was laughing at me (on the inside at least).

Then when I really started to get fat I started paying for a private trainer and was at the gym all the time with my trainer (in the Lou Ferrigno body type, not the Bruce Jenner type). So this bought me honorary membership into the muscle-bound portion of the membership (though I never got as thin as I wanted I did get a lot stronger). Anyway, it was interesting to see how they interacted with the gym:

Namely they give not a fvck what other people are wearing (and the true gym rats wear some of the most appaling stuff in the world). If they bitch about you it will be because you're hogging machines or weights. If they laugh at you it will be because they know you're putting a lot of effort into a pointless (or harmful) exercise (though more often they'll offer suggestions if you seem remotely open to it).

So, if you dress up for the gym don't do it because you're afraid of what all the muscly men will think. I have no idea if the other women are paying more attention.

I remember one time years ago I was driving somewhere and a very large woman was running (or rather, waddling) around Lake Merritt in Oakland. She was bouncing in 150 directions at once. I'll admit to an initial impulse to point and laugh a little but then I thought "hey, at least she's out there running. You're driving 10 blocks to the grocery store to buy milk." I've never had an urge to condescend in this way again.

Honestly, among the fittest members of the gym I found this to be the almost universal attitude. "At least s/he's here and I hope she sticks with it. Good for him/her."

Here's why I cringed whenever a woman in full make-up came in. Not because she was made-up but because I knew there was a 50% chance she wouldn't use towels and I'd be wiping face make-up off various machines before I could use them.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Everyone has their opinions as to what is "worth" the price from varying angles.

IMHO, these are not "worth" the price, or any price, for that matter. Same goes for a lot of overpriced fashionable crap.

I also think that $400 for the shag map isn't "worth" it, either. But that's just my opinion. If I disliked the map and wouldn't pay a dime for it, I'd personally think it was weird that anyone would purchase it. Again, IMHO.

Don't tell me you don't look askance at people that pay extravagant prices for what you consider lame concerts, Mousepod

I dare to have an opinion and I stick to it...