Anger is a gift (Happy 3rd Anniversary!)

[Prudence]

It's probably best not to imply that those who disagree are unfamiliar with the topic, although it's a tempting trap into which I fall all too often.

Personally, I think there are limits to what the current administration would "permit" the Iraqis to decide. And I'm not automatically disagreeing with that philosophy. Absolutely there are laws they could propose that would merit, at the very least, strong influence. However, that means the benevolent servant ideal where the US merely provides the heavy lifting isn't an accurate description.

[wendybeth]

Right now, a Christian convert is facing death in Afghanistan. This has created an interesting conundrum for the Bush administration. Do they intervene, and maybe cause the Karzai government incredible difficulties? Do we do what we would normally do, which would realistically be to try and ignore the situation, or in the face of mounting international criticism lodge a complaint with a world body such as the UN? Right now, the rumor is they are going with an insanity move, as no true muslim in their right mind would ever turn christian, but what if that doesn't satisfy the imams? The christian right. left and in-between will go after this admin like nobody's business. We'll see just how non-imperialistic we are with this little drama.

(For the record, I hope they go in with Blackhawks and rescue the poor guy).

[The Shadoe]

Originally Posted by Prudence

It's probably best not to imply that those who disagree are unfamiliar with the topic, although it's a tempting trap into which I fall all too often.

That's an example of elitism. In my humble opinion, the "we know better" ideology does not belong in a rational debate.


Unfamiliar? I suppose my professor with a PhD is unfamiliar as well? The United States isn't imperialistic. It's not imperialistic by the dumbed-down dictionary definition. And it's certainly not imperialistic by the textbook definition. If you have already read the textbooks, crack 'em open again; it's time to review the tome.

I absolutely don't mean to come across as being offensive, but I hold a very strong viewpoint on most matters, and I research them both out of personal interest, and because I get extra credit presenting speeches to my classes (This week I gave a speech about the positive and negative effects of Reagonomics in my Macroeconomics and Poli Sci classes).

[wendybeth]

While I am most impressed with your class roster, I must yield to the doers of society- I learned long ago that professors, while largely admirable, were teachers of what other people do. Not meaning to denegrate them whatsover, but they too have an agenda, and I would make it my business to find out what that was. It's easy to admire and follow people who spout off about the same things one already believes- they are geniuses!! It's much more difficult to read or listen to someone give an entirely differing viewpoint, and actually give that viewpoint a chance. Run it through your brain, look at all the shadings of grey, think that perhaps they may have something to offer. Life is not black and white, and if they are not teaching you that in college, than you are getting screwed. Or, you're in a junior college.

[The Shadoe]

Originally Posted by wendybeth

While I am most impressed with your class roster, I must yield to the doers of society- I learned long ago that professors, while largely admirable, were teachers of what other people do. Not meaning to denegrate them whatsover, but they too have an agenda, and I would make it my business to find out what that was. It's easy to admire and follow people who spout off about the same things one already believes- they are geniuses!! It's much more difficult to read or listen to someone give an entirely differing viewpoint, and actually give that viewpoint a chance. Run it through your brain, look at all the shadings of grey, think that perhaps they may have something to offer. Life is not black and white, and if they are not teaching you that in college, than you are getting screwed. Or, you're in a junior college.

Well, I have another professor in African-American Literature. I listen to him everyday as well. He has started passing me up when I raise my hand because I confront what he has to say ona regular basis. This one makes fun of passwords being set on the computers, making fun of needed security measures. He constantly makes remarks about how botched up he thinks Iraq is, about how incompetent he thinks President Bush is, etc. The difference between him and my political science professor? My poli sci prof backs everything he says up with clearly outlined logic. My poli sci prof presents various points of view and where their strengths and flaws lie. My Afr-Amr Lit teacher doesn't do any of that. He's stopped calling on me because I confront him on what he says and ask him to back it up. The last time he called on me, it was when he said that "Bill Cosby is out of touch". I asked him to back that up and instead of answering me, he went on to the next person.

I don't see things in black and white, or in absolutes. There are no absolutes, except as the famous quote goes "death and taxes". It seems like a common viewpoint that Conservatives see things as black and white -- not so. What you are seeing is a group of people who have come together because they agree on a certain set of issues. My VERY-liberal and VERY-feminist European History professor wore black in class after Bush's election, and said that conservatives are very good and picking issues and agreeing on them. She told our class that Democrats are going to have to work on that in order to win elections in the future.

I find the Junior College remark to be out-of-line. At least in Minnesota. I attend the University of Minnesota, but I know plenty of people who attended community college here first because the class sizes are smaller and it's cheaper (in Minnesota we have what's called the Minnesota Transfer Curriculm which allows you to easily transfer your credits to other schools in the state). I don't know about Community Colleges where you live, but here they are held up to the same standards as the other public schools. One of them in particular which is only a few miles from my house, Century College, is constantly winning awards with their debate team, math team, etc.

[wendybeth]

The junior college comment was a joke- kind of. A sort of 'you get what you pay for 'joke, which here in my neck of America means the Wal-Mart version of academics. Can't speak for your state, Shadoe.

We could argue political science and Lying Liars all night, but I have to go to bed- got to work tomorrow. Someone has to pay for this ****ing war.

[The Shadoe]

Originally Posted by wendybeth

The junior college comment was a joke- kind of. A sort of 'you get what you pay for 'joke, which here in my neck of America means the Wal-Mart version of academics. Can't speak for your state, Shadoe.

We could argue political science and Lying Liars all night, but I have to go to bed- got to work tomorrow. Someone has to pay for this ****ing war.

Believe me, I'm working as well. I'm in class full-time on Tuesdays and Thursdays and working full-time as the Director of I/T at DiscBurn MWF and sometimes Saturday if we get a rush job. Not to puff up my chest about what I do, but I really enjoy my job and my co-workers, so I usually am pretty excited to go there. I do miss when we were located downtown St Paul though. Something about people-watching and fancy high-rises with skyways is so much fun.

Anyhow, it has been a good debate, and certainly great for doing "mental pushups!" I do like debating people, perhaps too much so sometimes.