100,000 Protestors... Angry mobs of students... - Page 6

innerSpaceman · 03-28-2006, 02:25 PM

What, then, is the magic number that signifies societal acceptance? Need it be 30% of the population? 70%? What makes something "the norm?"

(besides, ya know, being Todd's bf)

Alex · 03-28-2006, 02:29 PM

I don't know. You're the one saying that a sufficient level of social acceptance makes something right. So I think you should be the one putting forward the number.

I will agree that generally if enough people do something that society will generally consider it morally acceptable. This magic number is called "a majority of those who get to establish policy." In our society this number is around 45 million people. In North Korea this number is Kim Jong-Il from the waist up.

But I will still argue that there can be differences between what a society allows and what is "right." A majority of the population allowed slavery, that doesn't mean slavery was right.

Gemini Cricket · 03-28-2006, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SzczerbiakManiac

Really!?! Any protest, huh? So you'd be glad to see half a million Westboro Baptists picketing the funeral of a gay man?

Fred Phelps doesn't have that many family members.

€uroMeinke · 03-28-2006, 03:18 PM

So...I'm guessing this thread isn't about the student/labor protests about the new youth labor laws in France...

See what happens when you select the BBC as your primary news source.

At least now I know why my commute this morning was twice interupted by street closures, emergency vehicles and mobs of people.

I still love my iPod though

scaeagles · 03-28-2006, 03:31 PM

Speaking of the French protests....I find them to be simply ridiculous. Really, I do.

Basically, it is all about making it easier for employers to terminate employees that are under 26. Right now, it is virtually impossible to terminate a worker in France for any reason.

What this does is make unemployment ridiculously high because French businesses will not hire new employees unless they are absolutely certain they will have the money and business necessary to pay this employee...FOREVER.

From an article I read -
"Union and student leaders say the CPE will create a generation of "throwaway workers" by making it easier to dismiss employees under 26 during a two-year trial period. Villepin hopes it will reduce youth unemployment of almost 23 percent.

"We're demanding the complete withdrawal of the CPE. You can't treat people like slaves. Giving all the power to the bosses is going too far," said Gregoire de Oliviera, a 21-year-old student protesting in Paris."

You can't give all the power to the employers? Having an easier time dismissing employees is treating them like slaves?

Simply ridiculous.

€uroMeinke · 03-28-2006, 03:40 PM

Well - if we're talking France now, they probably need to reform their whole emplyment scheem - as this solution, focusing just on under-26 employees could result in far greater problems for anyone out of work and over age 26.

But honestly, I don't know enough details of French Labor laws to really delve into this one.

Alex · 03-28-2006, 03:49 PM

I don't know enough for a strong opinion either. But I do know two French guys who started a company in France and then moved it out of Europe as soon as they could to get away from what they felt was a stifling business environment.

My former father-in-law also worked for a division of Honeywell that was bought out by nationally-owned Bull (at that time anyway, perhaps it has since been privatized) and he ended up with a very poor opinion of French labor laws based on the people he had to work with and the anability to remove dead weight and unwillingness to risk bringing on new people except under extreme conditions.

I'm guessing though, that since I am generally against government regulation of hiring practices in the United States that I wouldn't be fond of the specific measures they have in France.

€uroMeinke · 03-28-2006, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

At least now I know why my commute this morning was twice interupted by street closures, emergency vehicles and mobs of people.

I misspoke - the first incident wasn't protests at all, but the fatal shooting of an off-duty LA Sheriff deputy 6 blocks from our home.

Not Afraid · 03-28-2006, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

I misspoke - the first incident wasn't protests at all, but the fatal shooting of an off-duty LA Sheriff deputy 6 blocks from our home.

http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/...ead.php?t=3216

LSPoorEeyorick · 03-28-2006, 06:36 PM

Who else's distant granddaddies came over on the Mayflower? Lisa's was the pastor... mine became Governor Bradford... Tom's was supposedly something (we hope not Governor Bradford)... anybody else?

On topic, though... we were metroing into Hollywood to go swimming on Saturday, and the train on its way downtown was packed full. We were very confused until we saw the news.

The real sticking point for me is the measures they're taking to prevent charities from giving aid. That seems beyond ridiculous. And selfish. Come to think of it, it sounds JUST like this country.

03-28-2006, 02:25 PM	#51
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	What, then, is the magic number that signifies societal acceptance? Need it be 30% of the population? 70%? What makes something "the norm?" (besides, ya know, being Todd's bf)
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03-28-2006, 02:29 PM	#52
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	I don't know. You're the one saying that a sufficient level of social acceptance makes something right. So I think you should be the one putting forward the number. I will agree that generally if enough people do something that society will generally consider it morally acceptable. This magic number is called "a majority of those who get to establish policy." In our society this number is around 45 million people. In North Korea this number is Kim Jong-Il from the waist up. But I will still argue that there can be differences between what a society allows and what is "right." A majority of the population allowed slavery, that doesn't mean slavery was right.
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03-28-2006, 03:18 PM	#54
€uroMeinke L'Hédoniste Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: A.S.C.O.T. Posts: 8,671	So...I'm guessing this thread isn't about the student/labor protests about the new youth labor laws in France... See what happens when you select the BBC as your primary news source. At least now I know why my commute this morning was twice interupted by street closures, emergency vehicles and mobs of people. I still love my iPod though __________________ I would believe only in a God that knows how to Dance. Friedrich Nietzsche
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03-28-2006, 03:31 PM	#55
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	Speaking of the French protests....I find them to be simply ridiculous. Really, I do. Basically, it is all about making it easier for employers to terminate employees that are under 26. Right now, it is virtually impossible to terminate a worker in France for any reason. What this does is make unemployment ridiculously high because French businesses will not hire new employees unless they are absolutely certain they will have the money and business necessary to pay this employee...FOREVER. From an article I read - "Union and student leaders say the CPE will create a generation of "throwaway workers" by making it easier to dismiss employees under 26 during a two-year trial period. Villepin hopes it will reduce youth unemployment of almost 23 percent. "We're demanding the complete withdrawal of the CPE. You can't treat people like slaves. Giving all the power to the bosses is going too far," said Gregoire de Oliviera, a 21-year-old student protesting in Paris." You can't give all the power to the employers? Having an easier time dismissing employees is treating them like slaves? Simply ridiculous.
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03-28-2006, 03:40 PM	#56
€uroMeinke L'Hédoniste Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: A.S.C.O.T. Posts: 8,671	Well - if we're talking France now, they probably need to reform their whole emplyment scheem - as this solution, focusing just on under-26 employees could result in far greater problems for anyone out of work and over age 26. But honestly, I don't know enough details of French Labor laws to really delve into this one. __________________ I would believe only in a God that knows how to Dance. Friedrich Nietzsche
	Submit to Quotes

03-28-2006, 03:49 PM	#57
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	I don't know enough for a strong opinion either. But I do know two French guys who started a company in France and then moved it out of Europe as soon as they could to get away from what they felt was a stifling business environment. My former father-in-law also worked for a division of Honeywell that was bought out by nationally-owned Bull (at that time anyway, perhaps it has since been privatized) and he ended up with a very poor opinion of French labor laws based on the people he had to work with and the anability to remove dead weight and unwillingness to risk bringing on new people except under extreme conditions. I'm guessing though, that since I am generally against government regulation of hiring practices in the United States that I wouldn't be fond of the specific measures they have in France.
	Submit to Quotes

03-28-2006, 06:36 PM	#60
LSPoorEeyorick scribblin' Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: in the moment Posts: 3,872	Who else's distant granddaddies came over on the Mayflower? Lisa's was the pastor... mine became Governor Bradford... Tom's was supposedly something (we hope not Governor Bradford)... anybody else? On topic, though... we were metroing into Hollywood to go swimming on Saturday, and the train on its way downtown was packed full. We were very confused until we saw the news. The real sticking point for me is the measures they're taking to prevent charities from giving aid. That seems beyond ridiculous. And selfish. Come to think of it, it sounds JUST like this country.
	Submit to Quotes