100,000 Protestors... Angry mobs of students... - Page 9

innerSpaceman · 03-29-2006, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Netflix

A Day Without a Mexican has been added to your Queue at position 5.

tracilicious · 03-29-2006, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

After you watch it, post back the number they quote that immigrants pay in taxes every year. I can't remember it, but it's big. Oh yeah, and the special effects are cheesy.

Alex · 03-29-2006, 05:42 PM

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that Latinos will soon be a majority population in the United States as a whole.

The U.S. Census projection in 2004, by 2020 Hispanics will make up 17.8% of the total U.S. population and by 2050 that number will be up to 24.4%. While whites will fall to just half the total population by 2050 they are still twice as numerous as the next largest ethnic group.

So, currently, even if every Hispanic in the country legally (and I'm not sure if the curren population of about 35 million includes the estimated 10 million illegals or not) support illegal immigration and is willing to "strike" in support of it, then that is still only 12% of the national population in small pockets of a few states.

Alex · 03-29-2006, 05:49 PM

The number I've seen is that households with illegal immigrant head-of-households pay about $16 billion in taxes and have a cost to the federal government of around $26 billion (mostly for services consumed by the children in these households that end up in schools, but also legal and uninsured emergency expenses).

But money is irrelevant to the greater issue, in my opinion. They should be paid more (and thus pay more taxes) and a system should be created to bring all workers above-board, but when you enter a country illegally they can't really bitch out not getting the full benefits.

innerSpaceman · 03-29-2006, 06:11 PM

pfft, Alex, don't bother me with facts.

scaeagles · 03-29-2006, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

They should be paid more (and thus pay more taxes) and a system should be created to bring all workers above-board, but when you enter a country illegally they can't really bitch out not getting the full benefits.

This is exactly why Cesar Chavez was so against the illegal migrant worker. Illegal workers drive the cost of labor down. And as far as paying more taxes, a huge porportion of illegal labor is paid under the table.

We have a rather comical situation in Phoenix. The city council voted to spend money to build several air conditioned labor centers that provided water and restroom facilities to "day laborers" (read "illegal aliens"). I have one a few miles from my home. There were known spots that people who needed day labor could go and hire them, but the businesses they were hanging out in front of were getting mad.

Well, the day laborers decided to organize and accept no less than $8/hour for any job.

Competition for these jobs is at a premium. If a truck pulls up, it is mobbed by the first 40 or 50 that can get to it. So several of the day laborers figured they could get more work by not going to the day labor center and undercutting and working for $6 or $7 an hour.

Eventually, the day labor center near my home became completely abandoned. If you went there, you couldn't get work, because those looking to hire knew they could get cheaper labor elsewhere. So the city of Phoenix lost money building the centers, the businesses were again angry, and the attempt to get a very modest $8/hour was foiled by those new to the day labor scene who were willing to work for less.

The influx of illegals will ensure that that wages remain low because there is a glut of illegal labor, at least here in Phoenix.

scaeagles · 03-31-2006, 07:40 PM

This issue just became a ginormous in the Phoenix area.

There is an area on the far east side of the Phoenix metro area called Apache Junction. Yesterday, a few hispanic students at Apache Junction High School took down the US Flag and raised a Mexican flag in its place.

Several students took exception to this and after a shoving match, took the Mexican flag down and replaced it with the US flag again. Then, one of the students burned the Mexican flag.

The student who burned the Mexican flag was expelled. He was the only one. The reason he was expelled was for starting a fire on school grounds. I guess I can understand that, but the kids that took the US Flag down should face no less, IMHO.

It almost became a riot, apparently. I have heard that a security presence on campus acted quickly and decisively and did a good job stopping it.

The Superintendent of Schools for that school district made a statement today. One of the statements made is that students will no longer be permitted to wear clothing carrying image of any flag, because no one should be offended.

This makes no sense to me. What has just been decided is that an American flag worn by a student to a highschool in the US is potentially too offensive to allow. Honestly, that sickens me. I could live with them just making a dress code with uniforms, as many schools do (including where my children go), but to specifically make that statement about the image of the American flag being too offensive to wear at a high school in the US is beyond me.

If you are offended by the image of the US flag in this country, I would suggest you just get over it. I would suggest that about a lot of things that people find to be offensive.

There is a huge protest already being organized for Monday at AJ High where the plan is for everyone to bring an American flag and line the streets surrounding the high school. I may just go.

Ghoulish Delight · 03-31-2006, 07:45 PM

Banning flag clothing is ridiculous, I'd vocally oppose that.

As for the punishment of burning the Mexican flag vs. taking down the American flag...I'd expect some sort of discipline (suspension?) for tampering with school property for the kids who took the flag down...but to compare that to the rather wreckless behavior of starting a fire on campus (no matter what the fuel was) and expect the same punishment? Hardly.

scaeagles · 03-31-2006, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

As for the punishment of burning the Mexican flag vs. taking down the American flag...I'd expect some sort of discipline (suspension?) for tampering with school property for the kids who took the flag down...but to compare that to the rather wreckless behavior of starting a fire on campus (no matter what the fuel was) and expect the same punishment? Hardly.

Honestly, in the current environment of the protests and tensions at present, I would considering that as attempting to incite a riot. What did the students who did this expect to happen?

And I need to make a correction. The news report I heard has been corrected, and the kid was suspended, not expelled.

Ghoulish Delight · 03-31-2006, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Honestly, in the current environment of the protests and tensions at present, I would considering that as attempting to incite a riot. What did the students who did this expect to happen?

Starting a fire still seems like a significantly worse offense than taking a flag down.

03-29-2006, 05:42 PM	#83
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that Latinos will soon be a majority population in the United States as a whole. The U.S. Census projection in 2004, by 2020 Hispanics will make up 17.8% of the total U.S. population and by 2050 that number will be up to 24.4%. While whites will fall to just half the total population by 2050 they are still twice as numerous as the next largest ethnic group. So, currently, even if every Hispanic in the country legally (and I'm not sure if the curren population of about 35 million includes the estimated 10 million illegals or not) support illegal immigration and is willing to "strike" in support of it, then that is still only 12% of the national population in small pockets of a few states.
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03-29-2006, 05:49 PM	#84
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	The number I've seen is that households with illegal immigrant head-of-households pay about $16 billion in taxes and have a cost to the federal government of around $26 billion (mostly for services consumed by the children in these households that end up in schools, but also legal and uninsured emergency expenses). But money is irrelevant to the greater issue, in my opinion. They should be paid more (and thus pay more taxes) and a system should be created to bring all workers above-board, but when you enter a country illegally they can't really bitch out not getting the full benefits.
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03-29-2006, 06:11 PM	#85
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	pfft, Alex, don't bother me with facts.
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03-31-2006, 07:40 PM	#87
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	This issue just became a ginormous in the Phoenix area. There is an area on the far east side of the Phoenix metro area called Apache Junction. Yesterday, a few hispanic students at Apache Junction High School took down the US Flag and raised a Mexican flag in its place. Several students took exception to this and after a shoving match, took the Mexican flag down and replaced it with the US flag again. Then, one of the students burned the Mexican flag. The student who burned the Mexican flag was expelled. He was the only one. The reason he was expelled was for starting a fire on school grounds. I guess I can understand that, but the kids that took the US Flag down should face no less, IMHO. It almost became a riot, apparently. I have heard that a security presence on campus acted quickly and decisively and did a good job stopping it. The Superintendent of Schools for that school district made a statement today. One of the statements made is that students will no longer be permitted to wear clothing carrying image of any flag, because no one should be offended. This makes no sense to me. What has just been decided is that an American flag worn by a student to a highschool in the US is potentially too offensive to allow. Honestly, that sickens me. I could live with them just making a dress code with uniforms, as many schools do (including where my children go), but to specifically make that statement about the image of the American flag being too offensive to wear at a high school in the US is beyond me. If you are offended by the image of the US flag in this country, I would suggest you just get over it. I would suggest that about a lot of things that people find to be offensive. There is a huge protest already being organized for Monday at AJ High where the plan is for everyone to bring an American flag and line the streets surrounding the high school. I may just go.
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03-31-2006, 07:45 PM	#88
Ghoulish Delight I Floop the Pig Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alternative Swankstyle Posts: 19,348	Banning flag clothing is ridiculous, I'd vocally oppose that. As for the punishment of burning the Mexican flag vs. taking down the American flag...I'd expect some sort of discipline (suspension?) for tampering with school property for the kids who took the flag down...but to compare that to the rather wreckless behavior of starting a fire on campus (no matter what the fuel was) and expect the same punishment? Hardly. __________________ 'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.' -TJ
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