The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[Alex]

Before he provides the source, if indeed John Kerry did what scaeagles says he did, will you support whatever punishment you feel is appropriate for Bush against Kerry? Or will you find a way to justify what the guy you like did while condemning the guy you don't like/

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by JWBear

Sources please.

This is a clip from an article in the NY Times. I have not linked to it because it is a subscription site.

We referred to this other analyst at the C.I.A., whom I'll try and call Mr. Smith here," Mr. Bolton said. "I hope I can keep that straight."

Mr. Bolton could. But two senators - Richard G. Lugar, the Indiana Republican and committee chairman, and John Kerry, the Massachusetts Democrat - apparently could not. Both identified the analyst, Fulton T. Armstrong, in the hearing.

Though Mr. Armstrong had been identified in news reports two years ago about his dispute with other officials over intelligence involving Cuba, that was when he was the national intelligence officer for Latin America, and his name was no secret. When the Bolton nomination resurrected the old accounts, however, the C.I.A. asked news organizations to withhold his name.

Originally Posted by JWBear

So, outing a CIA operative, destroying her operation, endangering the people she was working with, and lessing our intelligence effectiveness - all in the name of petty political revenge - is ok with you? Alrighty then.

I disagree with the premise of what you are saying for a wide variety of reasons. Should that be what happened, I would agree with you. I do not agree that this is what happened.

However, old news. I realize you are new to this on this board, JW, but it has been discussed here ad infinitum.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Should these actually exist, I would suspect that a few rods could take care of it.

Should they actually exist then I'm sure they're included in the plans provided by the Department of Defense on how such a goal could be reached and presumably Sy Hersh just wasn't given that information with the rest.

Then again, should Charlie McGee really exist she could be very helpful in this situation as well.

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

but this whole Plame thing is ridiculous to me.

agreed- it is totally ridiculous.

#1- she was not covert
#2- her and her husband are liars- confirmed by a senate report


I have never seen so many people want to believe the pure BS spewed by Wilson and Plame. The desire to "get Bush" outweighs any kind of rational thought about it. If the media says it, it must be true.....let's ignore anything else that contradicts it.

The Senate report contradicts much of what Wilson said-
Link

Starting on page 39.

(edited to add- what Leo said)

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

#1- she was not covert

Not according to this:

Feb. 13, 2006 issue - Newly released court papers could put holes in the defense of Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, in the Valerie Plame leak case. Lawyers for Libby, and White House allies, have repeatedly questioned whether Plame, the wife of White House critic Joe Wilson, really had covert status when she was outed to the media in July 2003. But special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald found that Plame had indeed done "covert work overseas" on counterproliferation matters in the past five years, and the CIA "was making specific efforts to conceal" her identity, according to newly released portions of a judge's opinion.

[Nephythys]

and yet according to many sources she was not-that her name was common knowledge and so was what she did. She was also working a desk job-

It's all a boondoggle- but one thing I know for damn sure. Joe Wilson is a liar. A proven liar. And a liar with a purpose- and that purpose is to undermine a sitting President- and Joe Wilson makes me sick. Add their publicity whoring tendencies (photo spreads???) seems to put a lie to this whole "it destroyed her life" BS.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

Before he provides the source, if indeed John Kerry did what scaeagles says he did, will you support whatever punishment you feel is appropriate for Bush against Kerry?

Yes, absolutely – if he had done what Bush did.

According to the info Scaeagle posted, it was a totally different situation. Kerry (and a Republican Senator... Scaeagle conveniently left him off of his original post) didn’t “out” him. He had been outed as a CIA operative 2 years earlier. And, they didn’t do so in an attempt to punish a family member of his. It wasn’t done maliciously for political and personal gain. A big difference, in my book.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by JWBear

Kerry (and a Republican Senator... Scaeagle conveniently left him off of his original post) didn’t “out” him.

Yawn....if my motivation was partisan, I could have very easily clipped his name out of the NY Times clip. I am no fan of Richard Lugar.

We can argue about who was covert, who did what was worse (even with the CIA specifically requesting he not be named), blah blah blah. All I know is that with all these "revelations" about leaks, etc, Fitzgerald hasn't found squat except to say that Libby was withholding and/or misrepresenting information, and even some of that has had to be revised by Fitzgerald.

Fitzgerald corrects part of court filing

Yawn.

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Yawn....if my motivation was partisan, I could have very easily clipped his name out of the NY Times clip. I am no fan of Richard Lugar.

We can argue about who was covert, who did what was worse (even with the CIA specifically requesting he not be named), blah blah blah. All I know is that with all these "revelations" about leaks, etc, Fitzgerald hasn't found squat except to say that Libby was withholding and/or misrepresenting information, and even some of that has had to be revised by Fitzgerald.

Fitzgerald corrects part of court filing

Yawn.

can't mojo you- gotta give it a snap!

LOL- I love how Republican seems to automatically mean something to people- there are some Pubbies I will gladly give to the other side, TYVM. An I'll take a couple of their Dems in exchange.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

...but one thing I know for damn sure. Joe Wilson is a liar. A proven liar. And a liar with a purpose- and that purpose is to undermine a sitting President- and Joe Wilson makes me sick...

So... Anyone who disagrees with the president, and who dares to tell the truth, is a "liar" and is trying "to undermine a sitting President". Huh. Ok.

And of course... No Republican would try and undermine a sitting president. No. Never. Not unless he was a Democrat!