Could you forgive someone who shot you?

[Alex]

I do perceive free choice. I just don't perceive any justification other than personal perception for it. But even if were the case that my perception is somehow different than anybody elses it wouldnt be an argument that free choice exists. Just that I have different brain chemistry (which I dont).

[Alex]

As an analogy, I also perceive the passage of time as a constant but that is demonstrably not the case. Similarly, while a lack of free will is not provable, just my perception of it does not make it true.

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

As an analogy, I also perceive the passage of time as a constant but that is demonstrably not the case. Similarly, while a lack of free will is not provable, just my perception of it does not make it true.

Of course the cunundrum here - is even these "provable" experiments at some point rely on theory and perception and not necessarily the metaphysical "truth" - what you have is a verisimilitude instead of reality. And so once again one is just left with selectin the explanation that resonates most for them.

Personally, I believe in Free Will, the same way I am an Atheist, I have to accept them to be honest to my own experience of life. Thus, I have a sense of responsibility for my action, I acknowledge consequences for my decissions and wiegh them in my mind when I have to decide something. While my will has limitations, I have experienced times when my actions have chaned or altered the world.

I suppose Alex posits consciousness as an artifact of a process already set in motion - but then I have to wonder why my own consciousness doesn't expand beyodnd the boundries of my physical body. And so, I live my life as if I have free will - beacuse I'm not sure how I would do it otherwise - though maybe I'd be more of a risk taker.

[Alex]

bewitched, you expressed the implication of infinite universes correctly. If all possible outcomes occur simultaneously then it is hard to see a role for free will.

€, I certainly live my life as if I have free will, I can live it no other way. I just live it with the assumption that in the end my "free will" is just kabuki. However, there in the absence of any theoretical framework that would provide for free will I see no reason to suppose that my perception of the universe is correct. For me this is the same as why I am an atheist.

Both the existence of a god and free will are excluded by our current understanding of the fundamental nature of the universe. So, in the absence of any theoretical gaps that could be explained by [god|free will], or any overwhelming personal experience that indicates the existence of [god|free will] to the exclusion of other explanations I see no reason to presuppose it.

Free will requires that if you take a bunch of atoms and stir them together into a really complex stew somehow something magical results and you end up with the mind/body problem. So far, other than our perception there is no reason to believe this true. For me to believe in free will without a mechanical explanation would essentially force me to abandon my atheism since at that point human consciousness would have acquired the essential attribute of deities: the ability to function outside the fundamental physicial properties of the universe.

To clarify one point: I'm not a Calvinist. I do not believe that the events we experience are predetermined. If you took note of the position of every atom in the universe and then calculated their positions one second later with a big supra-universal computer the result likely would be wrong. But just because the processes that move the universe along are chaotic and contain elements of randomness that produce unpredictable results makes them no less mechanical in nature.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

Of course the cunundrum here - is even these "provable" experiments at some point rely on theory and perception and not necessarily the metaphysical "truth" - what you have is a verisimilitude instead of reality. And so once again one is just left with selectin the explanation that resonates most for them.

The other part to think about is that nothing is 100% proof. Evidence is strictly an indictaor of probable outcomes. The only thing is that is absolute about the outcome of an experiment is that one experiment in that one situation.

Science, physics, et. al. is not absolute, for variables abound in this world. And that to me makes life interesting (and sometimes annoying).

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And back to the original question...

One never gets "over" something, you just do your best to move past it. IMO, every experience in your life - great and small, good and bad - and more particularly how you react to it and how you let it affect your lfe (strong believer in free will) shapes who you are. I cannot control what happens to me in my life, but I can control how I react to it and how I allow it to affect me.

My boss is a complete imbecile. I have been allowing his behavior to negatively affect me most of the week and I have been very combative with him. Yesterday, I made the concious decision to NOT get angry. This was much more challenging than the previous days of the week, but far less emotionally draining.

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One last comment: children are much smarter and much more perceptive than society tends to give them credit for.