The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux) - Page 21

scaeagles · 04-20-2006, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

Have some vicodin. It seems to help scaeagles understand.

No, no, no.....I'm a percocet man. Vicodin made me hurl big time. Not fun after abdominal surgery.

innerSpaceman · 04-20-2006, 07:42 AM

Exactly who do you suppose would invade our country if we dismantled the Department of Defense and went back to calling it, and using it as, the Deparment of War ... i.e., no having no significant military power unless and until a time of war (war being declared, per that pesky Constitution thingy, by the Congress and not the president)?????

I think we could get things down to spending only $50K per second, and still pump up our vital infrastructure, our health services, our education services, our justice systems, our energy futures, our economic picture, our disaster response capabilities, and our internal & border security measures. All for less than what we are currently spending on "defense."

Is our military really protecting us from invasion? Note I say "invasion," and not "attack." It's been proven that petty criminals can mount a fairly credible attack. I mean a true military threat to our country? Where exactly would that be coming from???

scaeagles · 04-20-2006, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wendybeth

I'm just sure that's gonna trickle some direction to us. Really.

No such thing as a perfect economic or political system.

"Democracy is the worst form of government - except for all the others." Winston Churchill.

Same could be said for capitalism and economic systems, I suppose.

Wasteful spending is wasteful spending. Plenty of it in the military, plenty of it in social programs, plenty of it in education.....suffice it to say anywhere in government. Not good anywhere.

Regardless, I am not a deficit hawk. I have always struggled to put into words why not, but here is an absolutely brilliant explanation as to why.

Is there a federal deficit?

scaeagles · 04-20-2006, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Is our military really protecting us from invasion? Note I say "invasion," and not "attack." It's been proven that petty criminals can mount a fairly credible attack. I mean a true military threat to our country? Where exactly would that be coming from???

It depends on what you mean by military attack. Do psychotic leader such as North Korea's Kim Jong (mentally) Ill and Iran's whatever-the-heck-his-name-is scare me? Absolutely. N. Korea already has nukes (I won't bring up how they got them, as that might be seen as slamming previous administrations, and who cares about history). Iran is closing in on them.

China scares me a bit in that they have nukes, and now have ballistic missile ability (please see previous parenthetical comment), have puppet governments in their neck of the woods, and are most likely going to invade Taiwan at some point. If we protect Taiwan, our ally, then we will basically be at war with China, who is quite formidable.

So.....yeah. There are true military threats to our country.

innerSpaceman · 04-20-2006, 08:23 AM

But, insanity aside, what would be the economic or military motive for invading the United States?

Though there have been cases of insanity-wars, most military adventures throughout history have been economic in nature. Would someone want to enslave our population? Would it be our vast coal resources? Colonization of a land with lots of water and agriculture? What are we so in danger of?

Saying we are in danger of kooks with nukes is like saying you are in danger of being hit by a bus today.

It's possible, but I wouldn't advise spending half of your weekly paycheck on avoiding that bus accident.

Nephythys · 04-20-2006, 08:29 AM

I find it sad that when there is a group out there who want us converted or dead- who kill gay men for the act of simply being gay- who want to impose their religion on those who claim to want freedom from such things- who want to subjugate women-the response is "we don't need the military, we're the bad guys, and we need to just stop defending ourselves"

Sad......and blind

Not Afraid · 04-20-2006, 08:32 AM

Why is it that soooo many people don't see the grey. It must be boring in black and white. Or, maybe it is just easier to understand that way.

Nephythys · 04-20-2006, 08:38 AM

when people want you dead Lisa- there is no grey.

They are using our lax illegal immigration laws to sneak in and get false papers.

They are setting up camp in our country, for the purpose of destroying us.

If we stop fighting them-we will welcome their threat into our homes.

YOU of all people-with some of the dear friends you have close to your heart-should not be seeing grey when it comes to such a threat.

You can't paint this with grey paint and make Islamic radicals into your friends- you value your independence, your ability to travel, you treasure free thought and art and expression- you're a free spirit- and these people want to take that away from you- for being a woman, for being NON-Muslim.

So you want to tell me how I see the world- in black and white- I guess I would have to say that I think you are seeing it through rose colored lenses that refuse to acknowledge the threat to all that you love.

wendybeth · 04-20-2006, 08:41 AM

What I find sad is that we are not going after the terrorists, just all the people that look like them- except in our airports, of course.

Scaeagles, I am surprised at your restraint regarding the slamming of prior admins- is this some new policy?

scaeagles · 04-20-2006, 08:44 AM

Sane people don't scare me with nukes. Insane people do. I regard the leaders of N. Korea and Iran to be insane. You are attempting to apply logic to those that are not logical. You are attempting to apply economic sense to those who don't care about economics. The "kooks with nukes" phrase spells out exactly why we must be prepared - kooks aren't exactly predictable. Should North Korea decide to do something stupid like nuke Japan, or should Iran be far ahead of where we believe they are with regards to acquiring nukes and take out Isreal, or somehow they got one into LA, the buzz would be that not enough attention was paid to those two countries and that we didn't do enough to prevent it. Isn't that what happened with 9/11? Why weren't we more prepared? Shouldn't we have been able to prevent it?

What bothers me, and I do it as well, is second guessing everything. Whenever something bad happens, the cry is that we should have been able to prevent it. If we are actively working to prevent cetain things, and nothing on those fronts happens, then often the cry is that we are doing too much to stop something that is not the threat. It's a no win.

I do not fear a direct invasion by the Chinese anymore than I feared a direct invasion by the Soviets. However, I do fear what will happen when China decides to finally invade Taiwan.

As far as economic, crippling the US economy would bring great joy to Kim Jong Ill and Iran's guy (I just have no idea how to spell his name), as well as to a whole bunch of other smaller players in the world, like a Syria or the Palestinians or Chavez in Venezuela or Cuba or.....the list goes on and on. China needs our dollars in trade too much to directly attack us, and I believe that fact alone is why they have yet to invade Taiwan.

04-20-2006, 07:42 AM	#202
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Exactly who do you suppose would invade our country if we dismantled the Department of Defense and went back to calling it, and using it as, the Deparment of War ... i.e., no having no significant military power unless and until a time of war (war being declared, per that pesky Constitution thingy, by the Congress and not the president)????? I think we could get things down to spending only $50K per second, and still pump up our vital infrastructure, our health services, our education services, our justice systems, our energy futures, our economic picture, our disaster response capabilities, and our internal & border security measures. All for less than what we are currently spending on "defense." Is our military really protecting us from invasion? Note I say "invasion," and not "attack." It's been proven that petty criminals can mount a fairly credible attack. I mean a true military threat to our country? Where exactly would that be coming from???
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04-20-2006, 08:23 AM	#205
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	But, insanity aside, what would be the economic or military motive for invading the United States? Though there have been cases of insanity-wars, most military adventures throughout history have been economic in nature. Would someone want to enslave our population? Would it be our vast coal resources? Colonization of a land with lots of water and agriculture? What are we so in danger of? Saying we are in danger of kooks with nukes is like saying you are in danger of being hit by a bus today. It's possible, but I wouldn't advise spending half of your weekly paycheck on avoiding that bus accident.
	Submit to Quotes

04-20-2006, 08:29 AM	#206
Nephythys Yeah, that's about it- Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In a state of constant crap to get done Posts: 2,688	I find it sad that when there is a group out there who want us converted or dead- who kill gay men for the act of simply being gay- who want to impose their religion on those who claim to want freedom from such things- who want to subjugate women-the response is "we don't need the military, we're the bad guys, and we need to just stop defending ourselves" Sad......and blind
	Submit to Quotes

04-20-2006, 08:32 AM	#207
Not Afraid HI! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 17,108	Why is it that soooo many people don't see the grey. It must be boring in black and white. Or, maybe it is just easier to understand that way.
	Submit to Quotes

04-20-2006, 08:38 AM	#208
Nephythys Yeah, that's about it- Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In a state of constant crap to get done Posts: 2,688	when people want you dead Lisa- there is no grey. They are using our lax illegal immigration laws to sneak in and get false papers. They are setting up camp in our country, for the purpose of destroying us. If we stop fighting them-we will welcome their threat into our homes. YOU of all people-with some of the dear friends you have close to your heart-should not be seeing grey when it comes to such a threat. You can't paint this with grey paint and make Islamic radicals into your friends- you value your independence, your ability to travel, you treasure free thought and art and expression- you're a free spirit- and these people want to take that away from you- for being a woman, for being NON-Muslim. So you want to tell me how I see the world- in black and white- I guess I would have to say that I think you are seeing it through rose colored lenses that refuse to acknowledge the threat to all that you love.
	Submit to Quotes

04-20-2006, 08:41 AM	#209
wendybeth Nevermind Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,847	What I find sad is that we are not going after the terrorists, just all the people that look like them- except in our airports, of course. Scaeagles, I am surprised at your restraint regarding the slamming of prior admins- is this some new policy? __________________
	Submit to Quotes

04-20-2006, 08:44 AM	#210
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	Sane people don't scare me with nukes. Insane people do. I regard the leaders of N. Korea and Iran to be insane. You are attempting to apply logic to those that are not logical. You are attempting to apply economic sense to those who don't care about economics. The "kooks with nukes" phrase spells out exactly why we must be prepared - kooks aren't exactly predictable. Should North Korea decide to do something stupid like nuke Japan, or should Iran be far ahead of where we believe they are with regards to acquiring nukes and take out Isreal, or somehow they got one into LA, the buzz would be that not enough attention was paid to those two countries and that we didn't do enough to prevent it. Isn't that what happened with 9/11? Why weren't we more prepared? Shouldn't we have been able to prevent it? What bothers me, and I do it as well, is second guessing everything. Whenever something bad happens, the cry is that we should have been able to prevent it. If we are actively working to prevent cetain things, and nothing on those fronts happens, then often the cry is that we are doing too much to stop something that is not the threat. It's a no win. I do not fear a direct invasion by the Chinese anymore than I feared a direct invasion by the Soviets. However, I do fear what will happen when China decides to finally invade Taiwan. As far as economic, crippling the US economy would bring great joy to Kim Jong Ill and Iran's guy (I just have no idea how to spell his name), as well as to a whole bunch of other smaller players in the world, like a Syria or the Palestinians or Chavez in Venezuela or Cuba or.....the list goes on and on. China needs our dollars in trade too much to directly attack us, and I believe that fact alone is why they have yet to invade Taiwan.
	Submit to Quotes