The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by wendybeth

Jeff, while I'm proud of you for finding one example of an advancing glacier

Oh I could give you many examples of advancing glaciers; why I chose this particular one(other than the fact that it was called "Harvard") is that it is right next to a retreating one. Both share the same "enviroment"; both recieve the same amount of snow, rain, sleet and hail. If global warming was causing one to retreat then it would stand to reason.....

Originally Posted by wendybeth

I don't suppose you could be troubled to explain the many receding ones.

Many(especially the ones in Alaska) have long records of receding and then advancing sometimes changing directions as many as 4 times a century.

If they never receded the entire world would be covered in ice.

As for those Greenlandic fishermen; You're never going to get me to call these smart independent(they pulled themselves out of the European Union back in 85') hardy souls whiners. However there is plenty of precedence for what is happening now---

Climatic cooling compelled scientists to drill into the Greenland ice caps. The oxygen isotopes from the ice caps inferred that the Medieval Warm Period had caused a relatively milder climate in Greenland, which lasted roughly between 800 and 1200. However, in 1300 the climate began to gradually cool and eventually the last Ice Age reached intense levels in Greenland by 1420.----from Wikpedia

The colonies established in Greenland around 1000 thrived for hundreds years(same time as the MWP) but were completely and mysteriously lost by the 1400s(not long after the MWP was over)

[wendybeth]

I did a keyword search on global warming and came up with thousands of hits, of which only a handful fell into your line of thinking. (I suppose, using your 'majority' logic, that only serves to prove that all those scientists must be wrong). Time published an interesting article recently, which touches on many of the causes and effects of gw, and shows that the future is now: Be Very Worried. I realise you need to believe that the man and admin you voted for are right and everyone else in the world is wrong, but I'm afraid you're fighting a losing battle there.

[scaeagles]

WB - why then hasn't the average temperature increased since 1998?

Green house gas emissions have not fallen in that time frame, but have rather increased.

It isn't an issue of warming (at least to me), as there is data to show an increase of a degree or so in the last 100 years.

It is an indisputable fact that there have been periods of warming and cooling far before any such green house emissions by man came into play. These things happen naturally in the planetary (and more largely due to the solar) cycle. Therefore, no panic. We have no - zero, zip, none, nada - control over it.

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

WB - why then hasn't the average temperature increased since 1998?

Green house gas emissions have not fallen in that time frame, but have rather increased.

It isn't an issue of warming (at least to me), as there is data to show an increase of a degree or so in the last 100 years.

It is an indisputable fact that there have been periods of warming and cooling far before any such green house emissions by man came into play. These things happen naturally in the planetary (and more largely due to the solar) cycle. Therefore, no panic. We have no - zero, zip, none, nada - control over it.

With all due respect, all of YOUR scientific analysis isn't going to trump what many scientists the world over believe, what respected new sources are treating with respect and what I can see as trends with my own un-educated eye. If we were talking about Basketball, I'd believe every word you said but, I'm afraid, in this case, I'm going to have to go with the thoughts of the majority of people who study this stuff and we'll just have to wait and see.....or our children will.

[wendybeth]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

WB - why then hasn't the average temperature increased since 1998?

Green house gas emissions have not fallen in that time frame, but have rather increased.

It isn't an issue of warming (at least to me), as there is data to show an increase of a degree or so in the last 100 years.

It is an indisputable fact that there have been periods of warming and cooling far before any such green house emissions by man came into play. These things happen naturally in the planetary (and more largely due to the solar) cycle. Therefore, no panic. We have no - zero, zip, none, nada - control over it.

Depends on where you get your data there, Scaeagles. 1998 was hot, but not the hottest, and the trend clerly shows increase, not decrease, in temps. Things are heating up.

Again, loads of documentation- by very reputable sources- is available that shows gw is happening, whether you like it or not. Not so much is out there to support your position. I wish it really were as you say, because the alternative sucks, but I can't do the ostrich thing and pretend it all away.

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by wendybeth

I did a keyword search on global warming and came up with thousands of hits, of which only a handful fell into your line of thinking.

Which just brings me back to the line of thinking 30 years ago: If the internet exsisted back then as it does now you would have had a very similar number of hits warning of "global cooling" and only a handfull saying otherwise.

The ones wearing rose colored glasses back then were right

btw: My President agrees with you on this....

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by wendybeth

Again, loads of documentation- by very reputable sources- is available that shows gw is happening, whether you like it or not. Not so much is out there to support your position. I wish it really were as you say, because the alternative sucks, but I can't do the ostrich thing and pretend it all away.

My sources are reputable as well.

Please show me, however, where I said the planet was not warming. I did cite a link in conflict to the temperature data you posted in your link.

I have said I am not convinced it is man caused. Again, there were massive periods of global warming and cooling that could not have possibly been influenced by man.

Why is it so hard to accept that is what I'm saying? I'll say it again - data shows an increase in average temprature of about a degree over the last 100 years. So there is warming.

WB, did you read the link I posted earlier from the guy at MIT? My philosophy is really in line with what he's saying.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

With all due respect, all of YOUR scientific analysis isn't going to trump what many scientists the world over believe

It isn't MY scientific analysis. It is what I've read from respected scientists who disagree with the whole global warming panic. Like I asked WB - have you read the link to the piece from the scientist at MIT?

We can trade links all day on this evidence or that evidence. I just resent the implication that I am not particularly well read on it or I'm making up my own scientific analysis. It is not the case.

[wendybeth]

Of course it's not all man-made, but you're (and correct me if I am wrong) trying to excuse our government's anti-green stance by saying that all this science data is 'sky-is falling' nonsense. I suppose it doesn't really matter, because the fact remains that it is happening and we aren't doing **** about it anyway. By your logic, however, I never should have quit smoking. People got lung cancer long before cigs were invented, right? So why bother trying to do anything preventitive? Hell, we're all going to die someday- why try to fight it at all?

[scaeagles]

Well, WB, what can we do about it? The fact is that we can't do anything to change sun cycles or planetary cycles.

Even the Kyoto protocols don't claim to be able to do squat about what the projected doom sayers say is going to happen. The reason I have cited the MIT column is because so much of what is being said could happen due to global water can't happen. It's alarmism.

I find it so comical that many who say that the government is trying to keep us in fear about terrorism as a method of control are so open to being controlled about fears regarding global warming.