The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux) - Page 66

Alex · 05-10-2006, 05:22 PM

Except that is not necessarily the implication (and Hispanic is also not a race). There are many non-racist bases on which that data model would manifest itself. Why assume a racist one (especially a racist one that makes no mention of race).

BarTopDancer · 05-10-2006, 07:20 PM

Thanks Alex. I'd love to send back URBAN LEGEND to the person who sent it to me. This guy is *righter* than Nephy and Sca (not insulting either of you, just trying to describe him). Sometimes I'd like to send him here and watch him start debating Alex and iSm. That would be fun.

JWBear · 05-10-2006, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

Except that is not necessarily the implication (and Hispanic is also not a race). There are many non-racist bases on which that data model would manifest itself. Why assume a racist one (especially a racist one that makes no mention of race).

The implication is obvious. Who were the majority of the protesters? Hispanics. It implies that crime was down because a lot of Hispanics were too busy protesting to be out committing crimes. Ergo, that Hispanics are criminals.

innerSpaceman · 05-10-2006, 08:28 PM

And since when has immigration ever been so much a nationalist thing as opposed to a racist thing? I guess it's hard to separate the two, but look at all the passionate, violent bouts of immigration resistance and take a look at the races involved.

Oh sure, Alex is going to come in with some petty fact about Irish not being a "race," nor is Italian. Pfhh, tell it to the Marines.

scaeagles · 05-10-2006, 09:33 PM

I am opposed to illegal immigration but it has nothing to do with race. It just so happens that the illegals coming in are largely hispanic because of our borders. Granted, this may not have always been the case, but being anti-illegal immigration does not make one a racist.

lizziebith · 05-10-2006, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Granted, this may not have always been the case, but being anti-illegal immigration does not make one a racist.

But it certainly makes for a convenient modern cover for same. Don't think we haven't noticed the hiding behind the term "illegal." This is one of the things that has bothered me the most in the modern debate. Frame something ugly in an innocuous term and you've got the argument skewed. The right has been scarily good at this for some time and I find it profoundly disturbing.

BarTopDancer · 05-10-2006, 10:34 PM

If thousands of people from Canada were here illegally that would make them illegal Canadians.

People from Mexico are Mexican and people from Canada are Canadian and people from America are American.

Am I being racist against the Canadians for not wanting them here illegally?

What about all the Mexicans who are here legally and want the illegal Mexicans to be kicked out? Are they racist?

wendybeth · 05-10-2006, 10:49 PM

In all honesty, Lizziebith- we have a very small hispanic population up here, so I really don't equate illegal aliens with hispanics. To me, the term illegal says it all, and I really don't think I apply any sort of racial agenda to it. Damn it, if a person is not here legally, then they are illegal-plain and simple. If the laws are unfair or skewed to a certain demographic, then let's work to fix it- I'm definitely on board for that. Until then, we either declare a free-for-all run across the boarders to attain citizenship, or we actually start enforcing our laws. Otherwise, wtf have them to begin with?

lizziebith · 05-10-2006, 10:53 PM

Okay...are *illegal* Canadians the problem being talked about? I don't think any honest person would say so. I think the term "illegal" is code. Code for a group that is currently being scapegoated: Mexicans.

EDIT: wendybeth's post alarms me most: they have won the terminology war and now have everyone paranoid about a person's "status." Consider me freaked.

BarTopDancer · 05-10-2006, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wendybeth

If the laws are unfair or skewed to a certain demographic

Isn't the complaint that the laws are unfair to the people who are here illegally?

05-10-2006, 05:22 PM	#651
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	Except that is not necessarily the implication (and Hispanic is also not a race). There are many non-racist bases on which that data model would manifest itself. Why assume a racist one (especially a racist one that makes no mention of race).
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05-10-2006, 07:20 PM	#652
BarTopDancer Prepping... Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Here, there, everywhere Posts: 11,405	Thanks Alex. I'd love to send back URBAN LEGEND to the person who sent it to me. This guy is righter than Nephy and Sca (not insulting either of you, just trying to describe him). Sometimes I'd like to send him here and watch him start debating Alex and iSm. That would be fun. __________________ Spork is the new MacGyver Postcards From My Edge
	Submit to Quotes

05-10-2006, 08:28 PM	#654
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	And since when has immigration ever been so much a nationalist thing as opposed to a racist thing? I guess it's hard to separate the two, but look at all the passionate, violent bouts of immigration resistance and take a look at the races involved. Oh sure, Alex is going to come in with some petty fact about Irish not being a "race," nor is Italian. Pfhh, tell it to the Marines.
	Submit to Quotes

05-10-2006, 09:33 PM	#655
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	I am opposed to illegal immigration but it has nothing to do with race. It just so happens that the illegals coming in are largely hispanic because of our borders. Granted, this may not have always been the case, but being anti-illegal immigration does not make one a racist.
	Submit to Quotes

05-10-2006, 10:34 PM	#657
BarTopDancer Prepping... Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Here, there, everywhere Posts: 11,405	If thousands of people from Canada were here illegally that would make them illegal Canadians. People from Mexico are Mexican and people from Canada are Canadian and people from America are American. Am I being racist against the Canadians for not wanting them here illegally? What about all the Mexicans who are here legally and want the illegal Mexicans to be kicked out? Are they racist? __________________ Spork is the new MacGyver Postcards From My Edge
	Submit to Quotes

05-10-2006, 10:49 PM	#658
wendybeth Nevermind Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,847	In all honesty, Lizziebith- we have a very small hispanic population up here, so I really don't equate illegal aliens with hispanics. To me, the term illegal says it all, and I really don't think I apply any sort of racial agenda to it. Damn it, if a person is not here legally, then they are illegal-plain and simple. If the laws are unfair or skewed to a certain demographic, then let's work to fix it- I'm definitely on board for that. Until then, we either declare a free-for-all run across the boarders to attain citizenship, or we actually start enforcing our laws. Otherwise, wtf have them to begin with? __________________
	Submit to Quotes

05-10-2006, 10:53 PM	#659
lizziebith Wishing these titles could be longe Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pearblossom CA Posts: 984	Okay...are illegal Canadians the problem being talked about? I don't think any honest person would say so. I think the term "illegal" is code. Code for a group that is currently being scapegoated: Mexicans. EDIT: wendybeth's post alarms me most: they have won the terminology war and now have everyone paranoid about a person's "status." Consider me freaked. __________________ $ DO \|\| !$ DO ; TRY TRY: COMMAND NOT FOUND
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