The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[wendybeth]

If the laws are unfair, then convince the citizenry to change them- don't frikken try to blackmail them into it, because that will never work. Echoes of the Third Estate, and we all know what they did.

[Alex]

Irish isn't a race. Calling anti-Irish sentiment racism does a real disservice to actual racism. But since use of English words to mean specific things has been specifically precluded by iSm, I guess I haven't a leg to stand on.

The two populations of illegal immigrants I have had the most direct exposure to are Southeast Asians and the not insignifant illegal Irish population in San Francisco. I'm just as opposed to them as I am other illegal immigrants. And yet I have no problem with every member of the Hispanic, Irish, or Laotian "races" coming here legally. I'm guessing I support a more liberal legal immigration process than just about anybody that might post here. But it is good to know that since the majority of America's illegal immigrants are of the Hispanic "race" then such opposition is racist. I'm also opposed to illegal immigration in France where it is mostly Angolans and Turks. I'm opposed to it Germany where a significant portion is white Eastern Europeans. I'm opposed to it in South Korea where it is Malay, Thai, and Indonesian. I'm opposed to it when it is Canadians (and yes, there are lots of Canadians illegally in this country). I'm opposed to it when it is Americans in Canada (and yes, there are a fair amount of those as well). I'm opposed to it when it is Nicaraguans into Mexico and Haitians into the Dominican Republic. I'm just the most racisist person in the world.

To correlate crime with illegal immigration is a mostly baseless assumption (except insofar as certain crimes correlate well with the segment of the socioeconomic class in which most illegal immigrants find themselves) but it is not an inherently racist one.

[Prudence]

Originally Posted by lizziebith

EDIT: wendybeth's post alarms me most: they have won the terminology war and now have everyone paranoid about a person's "status." Consider me freaked.

I suppose there are some people who are using illegal as code. I'm sure there are some people out there that think that way. If that's the sentiment in your community, it is unfortunate. But please don't assume that we are all living that same experience.

Up here, "illegal" is just as likely to mean Chinese as Mexican, if not more so. There are regular news reports of illegal Chinese immigrants coming in through the Ports of Seattle and Tacoma in shipping containers. Or, smugglers take them over the Canadian border, just as happens with the Mexican border. I don't think I've ever heard a local news report about rounding up illegal Mexican immigrants, and I've heard dozens upon dozens about Chinese immigrants.

Maybe the bias is more pronounced on the east side of the state (wendybeth? any comment?) but honestly I wasn't aware that Hispanics were considered a minority until I started having to fill out affirmative action forms when applying for work after college graduation. Maybe I'm horribly naive, but where I lived growing up, I didn't notice the kind of bias you describe. Whenever we talked about minorities we meant African Americans exclusively, because they were the rarity.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by lizziebith

Frame something ugly in an innocuous term and you've got the argument skewed. The right has been scarily good at this for some time and I find it profoundly disturbing.

Ugyl and innocuous? How about descriptive? They are here....illegally.

This may be the most offensive thing I have ever read on this board, lizziebith. You think this is a right vs. left thing?

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by lizziebith

Okay...are *illegal* Canadians the problem being talked about? I don't think any honest person would say so. I think the term "illegal" is code. Code for a group that is currently being scapegoated: Mexicans.

EDIT: wendybeth's post alarms me most: they have won the terminology war and now have everyone paranoid about a person's "status." Consider me freaked.

I don't suppose there are 11 million illegal Canadians in the country. The problem is the flow through the southern border.

Who is they? "They have won the terminology war...." Let me guess what you mean....right wing racists. Open your eyes LB....it isn't just the right side of the political spectrum!

[Gemini Cricket]

I think if they gov't is going to use the whole 'protecting our borders' mantra, that they should focus on both borders. Sometimes it feels like their focus is saying, 'protecting our country from brown people'. I mean, how many Latinos do you see sitting on the Mexican border in their Texas-shaped lawnchairs trying to protect our border? None.




(oooh... I'm post 666. )

[Scrooge McSam]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

The problem is the flow through the southern border.

That's the result, IMHO.

The problem is not enforcing the laws we already have.

[SacTown Chronic]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

Irish isn't a race.

Don't make me get drunk and kick your ass.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Scrooge McSam

That's the result, IMHO.

The problem is not enforcing the laws we already have.

I was meaning that there aren't 500,000 Canadians entering the US illegally every year. It makes more sense to focus on where the problem of a massive flow of people coming across is.

I think it is too tough to define exactly what the problem is. It is many things. Not enforcing laws, catch and release, complete lack of control of the border.....but the biggest problem is the immensely corrupt Mexican government.

[Scrooge McSam]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I think it is too tough to define exactly what the problem is. It is many things. Not enforcing laws, catch and release, complete lack of control of the border.....but the biggest problem is the immensely corrupt Mexican government.

Don't think I don't hear you. I do.

I'm just restricting my comment to things we can actually control, if we choose to.