The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[scaeagles]

I don't think ex post facto is a problem here. If the crime was only crossing the border illegally, then you couldn't change that one act to a felony. They have already committed it, it is a misdemeanor, and it can't be changed to a felony. However, residing in the country illegally is ongoing. So while living here illegally yesterday may not have been a felony, there is no reason why living here illegally tomorrow can not be one regardless of when someone came in.

[Alex]

Oh, well I feel bad for their plight. I understand their life is hard and frequently unpleasant.

I also feel that way about the local homeless guy but I'm still going to kick him out of my garage (if I had one) if he tries to move in. I'm even going to kick him out if it turns out he's been living there for a while and it was all my fault for using a flimsy lock on the door.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

Health care, poor education, our country's security... are the illegal aliens to blame for all of these things? Maybe in part, but not totally. Our health care system sucks, our schools suck, if illegal aliens are our explanation for all of these things then that explanation is a cop out.

I never said they were the sole explanation. I know you know me better than that. Still, the burden that illegal immigration causes is real and it increases daily. It cannot be overlooked.

All I know is that I can very easily put myself in an illegal alien's shoes. If I were an illegal alien, I would want someone like a Gemini Cricket to have a little bit of sympathy for my plight.

Which implies that I don't have sympathy. To be fair, I don't think you are really suggesting that but the fact is, I can very easily put myself in their shoes. Like I've said repeatedly, I don't blame them. I completely understand why they do what they do and I feel very sorry that they are in the position they are in due the fact that they live in an amazingly corrupt country that frankly doesn't give a damn about them.

But the United States cannot afford to fix every problem that is created by another country. The best we can do is allow a process for those who want to come into our country legally have a way to do so. We have always done this and I suspect, always will. The problem is that our government has been doing what is best for the corporations and not what is best for its citizenry. Both political parties are beholden to the corporations and that is why this problem is as bad as it is.

[Not Afraid]

I'm really trying to put myself in the shoes of the immigrant but am having a difficult time with it because, a) my family immigrated a LONG time ago and b) my inlaws immigrated post WW2 from Deutscland when things were just a bit different. I wish I knew more about what my inlaws went through. I know there was a bit of flying by the seat of their pants and they went to Canada first before coming to the US. But, both became citizens and a part of the human economy.

The other illegals I have personally know are my Mexican BIL and a friend who is Irish and a chef for Patina trying to stay in the US on an expired green card. I don't begrudge either one of them for wanting to live here. But, both contribute to out economy in varying degrees. I guess that's what becomes the division for me - contribute or leave.

Anyways, I'm babbling about something I know very little about. blah blah blah.

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

Thanks Alex. I'd love to send back URBAN LEGEND to the person who sent it to me. This guy is *righter* than Nephy and Sca (not insulting either of you, just trying to describe him). Sometimes I'd like to send him here and watch him start debating Alex and iSm. That would be fun.

heh-no worries. I'm on the right on some things- left on others, and middle on some. So no offense taken-

(though I am to the RIGHT of GWB on many things )

[SacTown Chronic]

Originally Posted by Scrooge McSam

I hope you reserve as much criticism for the businessmen who hire "these people", in violation of our laws, as you do for the illegal immigrants themselves.

It does seem that many Americans forget that these illegals are here by corporate invitation, doesn't it?

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

But, isn't the idea that many health care facilities are closing because they are completely overwhelmed by illegal immigrants also scary?

That's a myth.

I was just recently doing some research on this as it affects LA County, but I don't have the data here at work. I'll post the actual numbers (and their sources) tonight when I get home, but here is what I remember of the top of my head:

About 2 million uninsured persons in LA County (out of a population of 10 million).

There are aproximately 800,000 illegal aliens in LA County, of these, about 50,000 are on Medi-Cal (receiving emergancy room and pregnancy related services only).

So, out of the 2 million uninsured in LA county, only about 750,000 - or 37.5% - are illegal. And that is assuming that none of those 750,000 have some other type of coverage.

So, are we going to persecute the 1.25 million legal aliens and citizens who are uninsured and clogging-up the health care system, as well?

[Alex]

Um, how does what you said contradict what what you quoted?

[scaeagles]

Decrease it by the 37.5% and I bet they aren't as overwhelmed.

The legal aliens and citizens are breaking no laws by accessing those services. Those who are here illegally are breaking laws to access those services. Big difference.

If I am having dinner with my family of five and two uninvited people come in (an increase of 40%, so close to what you've posted), they may not be eating as much as my family as a whole, but it sure puts a drain on the food budget.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

Um, how does what you said contradict what what you quoted?

That illegals aren't the boggeyman. You can't blame all of society's woes in illegals. You might as well claim that the high gas prices are the fault of the illegals. Or earthquakes, or sunspots.