The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Decrease it by the 37.5% and I bet they aren't as overwhelmed.

The legal aliens and citizens are breaking no laws by accessing those services. Those who are here illegally are breaking laws to access those services. Big difference.

If I am having dinner with my family of five and two uninvited people come in (an increase of 40%, so close to what you've posted), they may not be eating as much as my family as a whole, but it sure puts a drain on the food budget.

No, it's more like you have 7 uninvited guests, but you only like 5 of them, so you blame running out of food on just the 2 you don't like and ignore the 5 you do.

[scaeagles]

Not blaming illegals for all of society's woes does not change the fact that illegals due contribute to the woes of our society when in fact they should not be a part of our society.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by JWBear

No, it's more like you have 7 uninvited guests, but you only like 5 of them, so you blame running out of food on just the 2 you don't like and ignore the 5 you do.

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read in my life. Seriously.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

Which implies that I don't have sympathy. To be fair, I don't think you are really suggesting that but the fact is, I can very easily put myself in their shoes.

I'd like to clarify that I didn't mean you. At all.

[Prudence]

Originally Posted by JWBear

No, it's more like you have 7 uninvited guests, but you only like 5 of them, so you blame running out of food on just the 2 you don't like and ignore the 5 you do.

If I have 7 uninvited guests it doesn't matter how many of them I like. They all have to get out because I'm not running a *&!!$^# restaurant.

[scaeagles]

I bet you meant me. You hate me, don't you? You think I'm right wing scum.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Not blaming illegals for all of society's woes does not change the fact that illegals due contribute to the woes of our society when in fact they should not be a part of our society.

My point, which everyone either doesn't get, or chooses to ignore, is that people are demonizing illegal aliens, making them scapegoats for all of society's problems. Illegals are not to blame for all of our problems. Things are never that simplistic.

Honestly, I don't think I can go on debating this subject. Whenever I do, I get so angry and frustrated. People are making monsters out of these people. What's next? Concentration camps? History has told us that the next step after de-humanizing a people is genocide.

I just can't understand the hate, veiled and blatant, that I see in society right now; hate directed towards illegal aliens, legal aliens, and Hispanics alike. These are human beings we're talking about!

[Motorboat Cruiser]

I appreciate the clarification, GC.

To add some more fuel to the debate fire, I came across this...

Camarota, Steven A. 2004. "The High Cost of Cheap Labor: Illegal Immigration and the Federal Budget." Washington, DC: Center for Immigration Studies. URL: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscal.pdf

Background: Study is designed to assess the economic impact of illegal immigration on the federal budget.

Data Source: The Census Bureau for the year 2002.

Findings: The federal government provided $26.3 billion in federal services to households headed by undocumented immigrants ("illegal aliens") in 2002, but only collected $16 billion in taxes from undocumented households. The most utilized services include: "Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion)" (pg. 5). Undocumented immigrants impact the federal budget due to their low education levels and low incomes (not their excessive use of federal services) and the costs associated with their U.S. born children (who are eligible to enroll in federal programs).

[scaeagles]

Actually, if you reread this thread, you'll see that people who hire illegals, the corrupt Mexican government, and our own government for a lack of border control, are at the top of the list with the illegals themselves coming in after that.

It isn't an issue of hate. I don't get why you don't see that.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I bet you meant me. You hate me, don't you? You think I'm right wing scum.

No, I barely think about you at all.

I'm joking. I don't think you're scum and I don't hate anyone. You know that. Although, I think I hate that girl that won that lifetime pass to all the Disney parks...

I didn't mean anyone was being insensitive. I was feeling like people don't think about how crappy it would be to be working hard in those fields and then to come home and hear that people want to classify you as a felon.

Once I took a shuttle from Monterey to San Francisco. The shuttle was filled with people. This lady next to me looked out into a field filled with workers from the shuttle window and said to her husband, 'Oh look at that. Just like a Steinbeck book. People working the fields. How romantic.' I just about crapped myself. I thought, 'Romantic? Lady, do you have any idea what it's like doing what they're doing?' I of course bit my tongue. How I wished I could have grabbed that Filet-o-Fish out of her hands and pushed her into an artichoke field and made her pick veggies for a day.