The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by wendybeth

How does he feel about laser beams?

He shoots them from his anus. And I hear he hates hairstylists... thus the toupee I'm convinced he wears.

[wendybeth]

Ooooh! He has friggen laser beams up his friggen anus?

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by wendybeth

Ooooh! He has friggen laser beams up his friggen anus?

Yuh huh. And he loves Tonya Harding.

[Not Afraid]

Sometime I just want to be on these talk shows.

Or, maybe, I can just be famous for spewing my own brand of BS.

[wendybeth]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

Sometime I just want to be on these talk shows.

Or, maybe, I can just be famous for spewing my own brand of BS.

You have a fabulous typo-thing going! Run with it!

[Gemini Cricket]

Welsome to the Not Afraid Show!
With your host: Not Afriad!

[Alex]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I would suppose it is because of the nuclear nonproliferation treaty. While I am no expert on the treaty itself, I do believe that there are restrictions within that treaty that the Iranians are violating with respect to their nuclear advancements and inspections by the IAEA.

Does your post mean, Alex, that you oppose things such as economic sanctions to apply pressure to a sovereign state to abide by certain guidelines that they have agreed to? If a sovereign state violates a treaty such as the nuclear non-pro treaty, should we or the rest of the world stand idly by?

Since I don't think you'd suddenly feel we should stand by if Iran would just go through the formal process of making a statement that they were withdrawing from the non-proliferation treaty I assume you derive authority from somewhere else.

While I would prefer that Iran not develop nuclear weapons (but then I would prefer that Canada not do so either) I think they have every right, as a sovereign nation, to do so if they so choose. Of course, since they are signatory to an agreement to not do so, I think they should officially withdraw from that agreement.

No, I don't support economic sanctions and incentives as a tool of societal reform. But then, for the most par, neither do you; at least when it is our government doing it internally. You're just ok with doing it to other people.

I'm a free trade kind of guy and that has uncomfortable repercussions. I would certainly support the government refusing to do governmental business with Iran and any private efforts to cut off ties to Iran, but no the government should not regulate private trade with nations unless we are actually at war with them. To extend this, if I want to open a doughnut shop in Cuba or North Korea, that is my business, not George Bush's.

And if Iran wants to develop nuclear weapons despite world pressure otherwise, that is their prerogative. I also have no problem with taking a position that the United States will act unilaterally to defend sovereign international borders no matter where they are. So if Iran wants to blow up Israel once they have the bomb they will hopefully understand the potential repercussions.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

No, I don't support economic sanctions and incentives as a tool of societal reform. But then, for the most par, neither do you; at least when it is our government doing it internally. You're just ok with doing it to other people.

If you would show me where I said I support economic sanctions against other countries, I'd appreciate it. I don't support them, because economic sanctions don't hurt the governments of the countries that are sanctioned, they hurt the already poor and starving masses while the dictators stay in power and suffer no ill effect. As the UN oil-for-food program showed, even humanitarian efforts to overcome economic sanctions are corrupted to the benefit of the dictator.

In the little reading I've done on the NPT, and specifically North Korea's withdrawal from the treaty, there is a great deal of international debate over the legality and their withdrawal. I guess I don't know why that should be so hard to determine, but that's another story.

So we come to the conundrum.....Iran wants nukes and has said that Israel does not have the right to exist and that they should be destroyed. One great thing about the cold war was dealing with the Soviets who didn't want to die either. The leadership of Iran? I would figure they don't necessarily fall under that same category and would embrace the chance to be remembered as the destroyers of Israel. So....do we (and the international community) allow Iran to have the chance to give nukes to terrorists or use them on Israel?

I respect sovereignty.

I believe your question earlier about the right of outside influences to dictate what a sovereign country does was misreading my post about my disgust with the Bush administration thinking, in the same way that the Clinton administration thought, that giving Iran nuclear power technology as a bribe to stop the enrichment of uranium will work. In North Korea, Clinton sped up the process of them acquiring nuclear weapons. In Iran, I believe the same thing will take place.

It makes no sense to do it.

[Alex]

Ok, I took the second paragraph of the post I was responding to you as taking a defensive position of a view you felt I opposed. If not then cool.

No, the government shouldn't give nuclear technology to Iran. They should just let Iran buy it from the lowest bidding company able to provide it.

The statement that Israel should not exist is not relevant, in my opinion, to whether they should be allowed to develop a bomb if they so choose.

As for whether Iran can legally withdraw, about the only punishment I can see the United Nations being able to exact on a sovereign nation is either invasion, which wouldn't happen, and expulsion from the United Nations, which also wouldn't happen as it would be an acknowledgement that membership isn't paricularly vital to a countries existence.

[JWBear]

So... I click on the last page of this thread... And see this:

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

He shoots them from his anus.

I was just beginning to think that nothing I read on LoT could surprise me anymore... (That's what I get for skipping a page and a half!)