Miscellaneous Movie Musings

scaeagles · 06-09-2006, 11:05 AM

I have always tended to agree with him as well. This is why I've never understood why critics are overly critical (not to say Alex was in his review in the least. Not at all. He just go me thinking.) of "the same old story" getting told. Well, there just aren't that many different stories to tell, so reviewers, who watch lots of movies by default, are of course going to tire of them.

Gemini Cricket · 06-09-2006, 11:14 AM

The 36 Situations

1. Supplication
a Persecutor; a Supplicant; a Power in authority, whose decision is doubtful.

2. Deliverance
an Unfortunate; a Threatener; a Rescuer

3. Crime pursued by vengeance
an Avenger; a Criminal

4. Vengeance taken for kin upon kin
an Avenging Kinsman; Guilty Kinsman; remembrance of the Victim, a relative of both

5. Pursuit
Punishment; a Fugitive

6. Disaster
a Vanquished Power; a Victorious Enemy or a Messenger

7. Falling prey to cruelty/misfortune
an Unfortunate; a Master or a Misfortune

8. Revolt
a Tyrant; a Conspirator

9. Daring enterprise
a Bold Leader; an Object; an Adversary

10. Abduction
an Abductor; the Abducted; a Guardian

11. The enigma
an Interrogator; a Seeker; a Problem

12. Obtaining
(a Solicitor & an Adversary who is refusing) or (an Arbitrator & Opposing Parties)

13. Enmity of kin
a Malevolent Kinsman; a Hatred or a reciprocally-hating Kinsman

14. Rivalry of kin
the Preferred Kinsman; the Rejected Kinsman; the Object of Rivalry

15. Murderous adultery
two Adulterers; a Betrayed Spouse

16. Madness
a Madman; a Victim

17.Fatal imprudence
the Imprudent; a Victim or an Object Lost

18. Involuntary crimes of love
a Lover; a Beloved; a Revealer

19. Slaying of kin unrecognized
the Slayer; an Unrecognized Victim

20. Self-sacrifice for an ideal
a Hero; an Ideal; a Creditor or a Person/Thing sacrificed

21. Self-sacrifice for kin
a Hero; a Kinsman; a Creditor or a Person/Thing sacrificed

22. All sacrificed for passion
a Lover; an Object of fatal Passion; the Person/Thing sacrificed

23. Necessity of sacrificing loved ones
a Hero; a Beloved Victim; the Necessity for the Sacrifice

24. Rivalry of superior v. inferior
a Superior Rival; an Inferior Rival; the Object of Rivalry

25. Adultery
two Adulterers; a Deceived Spouse

26. Crimes of love
a Lover; the Beloved

27. Discovery of the dishonour of a loved one
a Discoverer; the Guilty One

28. Obstacles to love
two Lovers; an Obstacle

29. An enemy loved
a Lover; the Beloved Enemy; the Hater

30.Ambition
an Ambitious Person; a Thing Coveted; an Adversary

31. Conflict with a god
a Mortal; an Immortal

32. Mistaken jealousy
a Jealous One; an Object of whose Possession He is Jealous; a Supposed 33. Accomplice; a Cause or an Author of the Mistake

33.Erroneous judgement
a Mistaken One; a Victim of the Mistake; a Cause or Author of the Mistake; the Guilty One

34.Remorse
a Culprit; a Victim or the Sin; an Interrogator

35. Recovery of a lost one
a Seeker; the One Found

36. Loss of loved ones
a Kinsman Slain; a Kinsman Spectator; an Executioner

--------------------------

Boy this is really interesting to me. I think I should start another thread where we name of some films for each. Cool stuff, Leo.

Alex · 06-09-2006, 11:23 AM

I think there are many, many plots. Probably an infinite amount. What there is in limited quantity is motivation that we find interesting. But even if there are only 36 plots there is still a lot of leeway in presenting those plots in interesting ways.

What I think gets me is if you are going to cover very well-trod territory with a story, you should provide some reason for it to be worth revisiting since the last time someone did. I don't really have a problem with a remake of Psycho (it could be good and if it isn't oh well) but I do have a problem with a shot-for-shot remake as it seems to have no point except to say that a modern audience can't properly appreciate it unless you replace Janet Leigh with Anne Heche and Anthony Perkins with Vince Vaughn (remember when he did dramatic work too?).

Essentially I'm looking for some originality in a movie. If it isn't in plot, hopefully it is in character, or in mood, or in some interesting interpretation of the standard plot, or in the style of filmmaking. Plot is huge, so if you go with a very worn chestnut then you are at a bit of a disadvantage in finding room for creative expansion but it isn't impossible. As I said in the review, Cars is almost exactly, plot point for plot point, the same story as Doc Hollywood. And yet it is much better because it creates more interesting characters. But if it hadn't done that or found some other area for growth then simply being a knock-off of a B movie would have been a problem.

Alex · 06-09-2006, 11:25 AM

The problem with those 36 plots is that they are abstracted to such a high level that it doesn't really reveal much. To me it is kind of like saying there are only 26 letters in the alphabet so you can't easily write something original.

Cadaverous Pallor · 06-09-2006, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

To me it is kind of like saying there are only 26 letters in the alphabet so you can't easily write something original.

Exactly. Most movies have multiple plots tied together. It's not like there's only 36 kinds of movies - there are near-infinite combinations of the 36 building blocks.

We're seeing Cars tonight. I'm excited.

06-09-2006, 11:05 AM	#1
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	I have always tended to agree with him as well. This is why I've never understood why critics are overly critical (not to say Alex was in his review in the least. Not at all. He just go me thinking.) of "the same old story" getting told. Well, there just aren't that many different stories to tell, so reviewers, who watch lots of movies by default, are of course going to tire of them. Last edited by scaeagles : 06-09-2006 at 11:13 AM.
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06-09-2006, 11:14 AM	#2
Gemini Cricket ... Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,244	The 36 Situations 1. Supplication a Persecutor; a Supplicant; a Power in authority, whose decision is doubtful. 2. Deliverance an Unfortunate; a Threatener; a Rescuer 3. Crime pursued by vengeance an Avenger; a Criminal 4. Vengeance taken for kin upon kin an Avenging Kinsman; Guilty Kinsman; remembrance of the Victim, a relative of both 5. Pursuit Punishment; a Fugitive 6. Disaster a Vanquished Power; a Victorious Enemy or a Messenger 7. Falling prey to cruelty/misfortune an Unfortunate; a Master or a Misfortune 8. Revolt a Tyrant; a Conspirator 9. Daring enterprise a Bold Leader; an Object; an Adversary 10. Abduction an Abductor; the Abducted; a Guardian 11. The enigma an Interrogator; a Seeker; a Problem 12. Obtaining (a Solicitor & an Adversary who is refusing) or (an Arbitrator & Opposing Parties) 13. Enmity of kin a Malevolent Kinsman; a Hatred or a reciprocally-hating Kinsman 14. Rivalry of kin the Preferred Kinsman; the Rejected Kinsman; the Object of Rivalry 15. Murderous adultery two Adulterers; a Betrayed Spouse 16. Madness a Madman; a Victim 17.Fatal imprudence the Imprudent; a Victim or an Object Lost 18. Involuntary crimes of love a Lover; a Beloved; a Revealer 19. Slaying of kin unrecognized the Slayer; an Unrecognized Victim 20. Self-sacrifice for an ideal a Hero; an Ideal; a Creditor or a Person/Thing sacrificed 21. Self-sacrifice for kin a Hero; a Kinsman; a Creditor or a Person/Thing sacrificed 22. All sacrificed for passion a Lover; an Object of fatal Passion; the Person/Thing sacrificed 23. Necessity of sacrificing loved ones a Hero; a Beloved Victim; the Necessity for the Sacrifice 24. Rivalry of superior v. inferior a Superior Rival; an Inferior Rival; the Object of Rivalry 25. Adultery two Adulterers; a Deceived Spouse 26. Crimes of love a Lover; the Beloved 27. Discovery of the dishonour of a loved one a Discoverer; the Guilty One 28. Obstacles to love two Lovers; an Obstacle 29. An enemy loved a Lover; the Beloved Enemy; the Hater 30.Ambition an Ambitious Person; a Thing Coveted; an Adversary 31. Conflict with a god a Mortal; an Immortal 32. Mistaken jealousy a Jealous One; an Object of whose Possession He is Jealous; a Supposed 33. Accomplice; a Cause or an Author of the Mistake 33.Erroneous judgement a Mistaken One; a Victim of the Mistake; a Cause or Author of the Mistake; the Guilty One 34.Remorse a Culprit; a Victim or the Sin; an Interrogator 35. Recovery of a lost one a Seeker; the One Found 36. Loss of loved ones a Kinsman Slain; a Kinsman Spectator; an Executioner -------------------------- Boy this is really interesting to me. I think I should start another thread where we name of some films for each. Cool stuff, Leo.
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06-09-2006, 11:23 AM	#3
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	I think there are many, many plots. Probably an infinite amount. What there is in limited quantity is motivation that we find interesting. But even if there are only 36 plots there is still a lot of leeway in presenting those plots in interesting ways. What I think gets me is if you are going to cover very well-trod territory with a story, you should provide some reason for it to be worth revisiting since the last time someone did. I don't really have a problem with a remake of Psycho (it could be good and if it isn't oh well) but I do have a problem with a shot-for-shot remake as it seems to have no point except to say that a modern audience can't properly appreciate it unless you replace Janet Leigh with Anne Heche and Anthony Perkins with Vince Vaughn (remember when he did dramatic work too?). Essentially I'm looking for some originality in a movie. If it isn't in plot, hopefully it is in character, or in mood, or in some interesting interpretation of the standard plot, or in the style of filmmaking. Plot is huge, so if you go with a very worn chestnut then you are at a bit of a disadvantage in finding room for creative expansion but it isn't impossible. As I said in the review, Cars is almost exactly, plot point for plot point, the same story as Doc Hollywood. And yet it is much better because it creates more interesting characters. But if it hadn't done that or found some other area for growth then simply being a knock-off of a B movie would have been a problem.
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06-09-2006, 11:25 AM	#4
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	The problem with those 36 plots is that they are abstracted to such a high level that it doesn't really reveal much. To me it is kind of like saying there are only 26 letters in the alphabet so you can't easily write something original.
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