News- no, it's propoganda

innerSpaceman · 08-03-2006, 07:11 PM

What, Hizballah brought in disabled U.N. peacekeepers?

I'm gonna need something far more credible. It's true that the body count at Qana was overstated by 100%, but this bit about tieing paraplegic children to railroad tracks is going to need a bit more substantiation.

Not that I put it past Hizballah, but neither do I put past Israel what they have been accused of in this incident.

There's no way out of this, btw. Hizballah won't disarm, can't be trusted to keep any agreement they might give lip service to, and there's no way to defeat them militarily or route them out of Lebanon. For every bit of set-back they deal to Hizballah, 100 other muslims in the region turn militant against Israel for the atrocities they are believed by said muslims to be committing.

No win possible. Perhaps a temporary reprieve in Hizballah activities. Perhaps.

But the only peaceful and ultimate solution is for Israel to go away.

It will happen eventually. How many more must brutally die until then?

scaeagles · 08-03-2006, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

But the only peaceful and ultimate solution is for Israel to go away.

I am going to assault you and try to take your home away. If I am killed or imprisoned, my relatives and friends will continue. The only peaceful thing for you to do is to just give me your home. And even if you do, I will still want you dead, as I have sworn to kill you and all of your descendants.

A bit of a ridiculous example on the surface, but not that ridiculous.

And no, Hezbollah launched rockets from immediatel next to the UN post, as I understand it, in an attempt to bait Israel. Apparently it worked. Please understand this is what I had heard reported....I have no verification of it.

Alex · 08-03-2006, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I am going to assault you and try to take your home away. If I am killed or imprisoned, my relatives and friends will continue. The only peaceful thing for you to do is to just give me your home. And even if you do, I will still want you dead, as I have sworn to kill you and all of your descendants.

A bit of a ridiculous example on the surface, but not that ridiculous.

And no, Hezbollah launched rockets from immediatel next to the UN post, as I understand it, in an attempt to bait Israel. Apparently it worked. Please understand this is what I had heard reported....I have no verification of it.

The problem is, is land worth killing and being killed for? When faced with someone who say "yes, undoubtedly" at what point do you just walk away? Especially when, to start your renewed claim on the land you first took it away from them.

Alex · 08-03-2006, 07:57 PM

Or, put another way. Go back 60 years and say to the founders of the new Israel:

"You can have your promised land back but it will mean at least 75 years of near continuous bloodshed. Outright war every decade or so and near continuous guerilla warfare. Thousands of Israelites will be killed. Tens of thousands of Arabs. And at the end of that you'll be distrusted by much of the rest of the world and viewed as the aggressor and not the defender."

What kind of reasonable people would say "yeah, let's go for it"?

Alex · 08-03-2006, 07:58 PM

Then why is it they weren't killing Jews until the Jews laid claim to the land?

scaeagles · 08-03-2006, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

Then why is it they weren't killing Jews until the Jews laid claim to the land?

I'd have to research it a bit, but if I recall there were factions of radical Islam that came out of WWII that had always wanted the eradication of the Jews and used the creation of Israel as a rallying cry to unite Muslims to support their goal.

I'm admittedly a bit fuzzy on it.

Ghoulish Delight · 08-03-2006, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I'd have to research it a bit, but if I recall there were factions of radical Islam that came out of WWII that had always wanted the eradication of the Jews and used the creation of Israel as a rallying cry to unite Muslims to support their goal.

I'm admittedly a bit fuzzy on it.

Until Israel declared its independence, the Jews were actually living in the region quite peacefully, having legitametly purchsed land there.

scaeagles · 08-03-2006, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

The problem is, is land worth killing and being killed for? When faced with someone who say "yes, undoubtedly" at what point do you just walk away? Especially when, to start your renewed claim on the land you first took it away from them.

I don't disagree with the point you are making at all.

Wasn't that how WWII started, though (in part)? Germany only wanted the Sudetenland. Appeasement emboldened them. It is known that if Saddam had not been expelled from Kuwait he was going to Saudi Arabia next.

Raical Islamic terrorists are no about land. They are about killing Jews and focing everyone to convert to Islam. Giving in emboldens them.

Alex · 08-03-2006, 08:03 PM

But it is hard to know that since radical Islamism in its modern form has only existed in resistence to Jewish and Western encroachment into Muslim territories.

It is one thing to say that the core would continue fighting but would they still have the broad support necessary from the more mainstream people?

scaeagles · 08-03-2006, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

But it is hard to know that since radical Islamism in its modern form has only existed in resistence to Jewish and Western encroachment into Muslim territories.

So do you then believe that the major reason for 9/11 is our support of Israel? Perhaps you could include our miltary presence in Saudi Arabia.

08-03-2006, 07:11 PM	#1
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	What, Hizballah brought in disabled U.N. peacekeepers? I'm gonna need something far more credible. It's true that the body count at Qana was overstated by 100%, but this bit about tieing paraplegic children to railroad tracks is going to need a bit more substantiation. Not that I put it past Hizballah, but neither do I put past Israel what they have been accused of in this incident. There's no way out of this, btw. Hizballah won't disarm, can't be trusted to keep any agreement they might give lip service to, and there's no way to defeat them militarily or route them out of Lebanon. For every bit of set-back they deal to Hizballah, 100 other muslims in the region turn militant against Israel for the atrocities they are believed by said muslims to be committing. No win possible. Perhaps a temporary reprieve in Hizballah activities. Perhaps. But the only peaceful and ultimate solution is for Israel to go away. It will happen eventually. How many more must brutally die until then?
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08-03-2006, 07:57 PM	#4
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	Or, put another way. Go back 60 years and say to the founders of the new Israel: "You can have your promised land back but it will mean at least 75 years of near continuous bloodshed. Outright war every decade or so and near continuous guerilla warfare. Thousands of Israelites will be killed. Tens of thousands of Arabs. And at the end of that you'll be distrusted by much of the rest of the world and viewed as the aggressor and not the defender." What kind of reasonable people would say "yeah, let's go for it"?
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08-03-2006, 07:58 PM	#5
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	Then why is it they weren't killing Jews until the Jews laid claim to the land?
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08-03-2006, 08:03 PM	#9
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	But it is hard to know that since radical Islamism in its modern form has only existed in resistence to Jewish and Western encroachment into Muslim territories. It is one thing to say that the core would continue fighting but would they still have the broad support necessary from the more mainstream people?
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