Forbes posts and then pulls controversial article about marriage

LSPoorEeyorick · 08-23-2006, 07:17 PM

So Forbes posted a column on Monday about how why men should not marry career women. And then today, they pulled it down, and later reposted it with a rebuttle from another writer on their staff-- a woman. Here's a clip of the original article.

Don't Marry Career Women
by Michael Noer
Forbes.com
August 21, 2006

Guys: A word of advice. Marry pretty women or ugly ones. Short ones or tall ones. Blondes or brunettes. Just, whatever you do, don't marry a woman with a career.

Why? Because if many social scientists are to be believed, you run a higher risk of having a rocky marriage. While everyone knows that marriage can be stressful, recent studies have found professional women are more likely to get divorced, more likely to cheat, less likely to have children, and, if they do have kids, they are more likely to be unhappy about it. A recent study in Social Forces, a research journal, found that women--even those with a "feminist" outlook--are happier when their husband is the primary breadwinner.

Read the rest of the article and the rebuttle here.

Who is this idiot? How dare he suggest that, because a woman is interested in pursuing her interests and earning her share of income, she's any less worthy of partnership than someone who chooses differently?

No scientific study can adequately determine the cause of happiness, or the terms or length or the quality of marriage, based on the extensive variables that must be considered.

And it seems he's only picking out the negative studies and the the negative aspects of the situation, and this is a one-sided journalistic misstep. It's ric*ckulous.

Not Afraid · 08-23-2006, 07:19 PM

Was this written this week or in 1930?

LSPoorEeyorick · 08-23-2006, 07:31 PM

Published Monday, but apparently he's still living in 1930.

And you'd be surprised (or maybe not) by the quantity of "right on! the women posting rebuttles are probably just lonely lesbians!" posts from men in response.

Cadaverous Pallor · 08-23-2006, 07:37 PM

Well, the guy's article is chock full of citations from recent statistics. The woman's rebuttal is simply a collection of her own experiences. This is a rebuttal how?

Personally, I am not offended by the concept that it is harder to maintain a marriage when both people involved assert their identities and when each have different schedules. I'm also not surprised that the infidelity rate goes up - the woman is out meeting others, and the chances are higher that the man feels neglected. Notice I said "higher" - doesn't mean it's epidemic, just higher.

I'm not surprised at any of it, really. Does this mean that I'm going to be a housewife because of it? No, it just shows that the people in modern relationships have to work harder than those from the stone age, and I'm up for the challenge.

blueerica · 08-23-2006, 07:49 PM

Well, said.

I did, however, think the article was kind of silly... Why would Forbes put that out there?

Not Afraid · 08-23-2006, 08:23 PM

Women, don't marry men with careers because, chances are, they'll meet someone the like better than you.

There's nothing wrong with the studies cited and, yes, 2 career marriages are difficult. Marriage is difficult! I don't buy author's simplistic conclusions. But, whatever. If that's what the author want to believe, then go for it.

I've made more than my husband, I'm made equal amounts, and I've made less and worked part time. I've also been divorced once. What works for me right now is different than what worked for me 10 years ago and I can't say that ONE way is the right way. The way WE choose to do it now is what is working for us now. Subject to change without notice.

innerSpaceman · 08-23-2006, 08:32 PM

Not Afraid's shoe-on-the-other foot is perfectly valid. Which just goes to demonstrate the validity of the initial concept. Yes, two working people is likely to be a stress factor.

Unquantifiable is the trend that career women might be, well, better people and thus better mates and thus worth working out the stress factors. But there's probably not statistics on that, so I have no problem with an article gathering and reporting on the facts about break-ups and self-satisfaction and cheating, etc.

It will be up to the discerning reader to figure out the obvious, namely, that everyone is an individual ... and when it comes to love, marriage, mating and relationships - - statistics mean jack crap.

* I'm not suggesting that working women are inherently better than housewives. But there might be some independence, vitality, vivaciousness, integrity or strength indicated by a person with a career motivation. And, of course, there may not be.

But give me a career woman every time.

And then let me stay at home and take care of the house!

Cadaverous Pallor · 08-23-2006, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

Women, don't marry men with careers because, chances are, they'll meet someone the like better than you.

There's nothing wrong with the studies cited and, yes, 2 career marriages are difficult. Marriage is difficult! I don't buy author's simplistic conclusions. But, whatever. If that's what the author want to believe, then go for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the article

If a host of studies are to be believed, marrying these women is asking for trouble. If they quit their jobs and stay home with the kids, they will be unhappy (Journal of Marriage and Family, 2003). They will be unhappy if they make more money than you do (Social Forces, 2006). You will be unhappy if they make more money than you do (Journal of Marriage and Family, 2001). You will be more likely to fall ill (American Journal of Sociology). Even your house will be dirtier (Institute for Social Research).
<snip>
n 2004, John H. Johnson examined data from the Survey of Income and Program Participation and concluded that gender has a significant influence on the relationship between work hours and increases in the probability of divorce. Women's work hours consistently increase divorce, whereas increases in men's work hours often have no statistical effect. "I also find that the incidence in divorce is far higher in couples where both spouses are working than in couples where only one spouse is employed," Johnson says.

These aren't the author's beliefs, they are what he found in many, many studies. If you disregard the studies, you'll have to disregard any and all other studies - even ones you (gasp!) agree with.

Just because we don't like the facts doesn't mean we can ignore them. Now if one would want to actually look up the studies and argue their merit (sampling techniques, demographics, rigor) I'd love to see it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NA

I've made more than my husband, I'm made equal amounts, and I've made less and worked part time. I've also been divorced once. What works for me right now is different than what worked for me 10 years ago and I can't say that ONE way is the right way. The way WE choose to do it now is what is working for us now. Subject to change without notice.

But of course. Same here. But this is exactly the same kind of "rebuttal" the other woman wrote - "my life is good therefore marriages with working women are good." Sorry, that's a logical fallacy.

Cadaverous Pallor · 08-23-2006, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iSm

It will be up to the discerning reader to figure out the obvious, namely, that everyone is an individual ... and when it comes to love, marriage, mating and relationships - - statistics mean jack crap.

See, just like I said, if you want to throw out the statistics, fine, but you have to throw out ALL statistics, which is what iSm just did here. That works.

Not Afraid · 08-23-2006, 08:44 PM

"DON'T MARRY A CAREER WOMAN"

It's the title that irks me most.

08-23-2006, 07:17 PM	#1
LSPoorEeyorick scribblin' Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: in the moment Posts: 3,872	Forbes posts and then pulls controversial article about marriage So Forbes posted a column on Monday about how why men should not marry career women. And then today, they pulled it down, and later reposted it with a rebuttle from another writer on their staff-- a woman. Here's a clip of the original article. Don't Marry Career Women by Michael Noer Forbes.com August 21, 2006 Guys: A word of advice. Marry pretty women or ugly ones. Short ones or tall ones. Blondes or brunettes. Just, whatever you do, don't marry a woman with a career. Why? Because if many social scientists are to be believed, you run a higher risk of having a rocky marriage. While everyone knows that marriage can be stressful, recent studies have found professional women are more likely to get divorced, more likely to cheat, less likely to have children, and, if they do have kids, they are more likely to be unhappy about it. A recent study in Social Forces, a research journal, found that women--even those with a "feminist" outlook--are happier when their husband is the primary breadwinner. Read the rest of the article and the rebuttle here. Who is this idiot? How dare he suggest that, because a woman is interested in pursuing her interests and earning her share of income, she's any less worthy of partnership than someone who chooses differently? No scientific study can adequately determine the cause of happiness, or the terms or length or the quality of marriage, based on the extensive variables that must be considered. And it seems he's only picking out the negative studies and the the negative aspects of the situation, and this is a one-sided journalistic misstep. It's ricckulous. Last edited by LSPoorEeyorick : 08-23-2006 at 07:27 PM.*
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08-23-2006, 07:19 PM	#2
Not Afraid HI! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 17,108	Was this written this week or in 1930?
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08-23-2006, 07:31 PM	#3
LSPoorEeyorick scribblin' Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: in the moment Posts: 3,872	Published Monday, but apparently he's still living in 1930. And you'd be surprised (or maybe not) by the quantity of "right on! the women posting rebuttles are probably just lonely lesbians!" posts from men in response.
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08-23-2006, 07:37 PM	#4
Cadaverous Pallor ohhhh baby Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Parental Bliss Posts: 12,364	Well, the guy's article is chock full of citations from recent statistics. The woman's rebuttal is simply a collection of her own experiences. This is a rebuttal how? Personally, I am not offended by the concept that it is harder to maintain a marriage when both people involved assert their identities and when each have different schedules. I'm also not surprised that the infidelity rate goes up - the woman is out meeting others, and the chances are higher that the man feels neglected. Notice I said "higher" - doesn't mean it's epidemic, just higher. I'm not surprised at any of it, really. Does this mean that I'm going to be a housewife because of it? No, it just shows that the people in modern relationships have to work harder than those from the stone age, and I'm up for the challenge. __________________ The second star to the right shines in the night for you
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08-23-2006, 07:49 PM	#5
blueerica Nueve Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,497	Well, said. I did, however, think the article was kind of silly... Why would Forbes put that out there? __________________ Tomorrow is the day for you and me
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08-23-2006, 08:23 PM	#6
Not Afraid HI! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 17,108	Women, don't marry men with careers because, chances are, they'll meet someone the like better than you. There's nothing wrong with the studies cited and, yes, 2 career marriages are difficult. Marriage is difficult! I don't buy author's simplistic conclusions. But, whatever. If that's what the author want to believe, then go for it. I've made more than my husband, I'm made equal amounts, and I've made less and worked part time. I've also been divorced once. What works for me right now is different than what worked for me 10 years ago and I can't say that ONE way is the right way. The way WE choose to do it now is what is working for us now. Subject to change without notice.
	Submit to Quotes

08-23-2006, 08:32 PM	#7
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Not Afraid's shoe-on-the-other foot is perfectly valid. Which just goes to demonstrate the validity of the initial concept. Yes, two working people is likely to be a stress factor. Unquantifiable is the trend that career women might be, well, better people and thus better mates and thus worth working out the stress factors. But there's probably not statistics on that, so I have no problem with an article gathering and reporting on the facts about break-ups and self-satisfaction and cheating, etc. It will be up to the discerning reader to figure out the obvious, namely, that everyone is an individual ... and when it comes to love, marriage, mating and relationships - - statistics mean jack crap. * I'm not suggesting that working women are inherently better than housewives. But there might be some independence, vitality, vivaciousness, integrity or strength indicated by a person with a career motivation. And, of course, there may not be. But give me a career woman every time. And then let me stay at home and take care of the house!
	Submit to Quotes

08-23-2006, 08:44 PM	#10
Not Afraid HI! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 17,108	"DON'T MARRY A CAREER WOMAN" It's the title that irks me most.
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