Is it bad that I agree with this?

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

It is a personal choice.

It's also a "personal choice" for a teenager to smoke or do drugs because her friends do them. Everyone in these fora question the outside forces that dictate and influence their so-called personal choices.

Now, maybe I'm just a crotchety old feminist, but I think that when society/fashion/etc. decides that all of a sudden women have to jump through new hoops, spend additional hours out of their week and money out of their pocket to do something new in order to be desirable to men, there's something wrong. Particularly when the something that is decided is something ludicrous: the aforementioned four-inch flip-flops, lowriders that have young women looking like my plumber and constantly hiking their pants up because they're really a little embarrassed by having their ass hang out, etc.

As for the waxing, I remember when all the pageant pictures of Jon-Benet came out and people were upset about how a six-year old was dolled up to look like a sexy adult. I'm not sure it's much healthier to say that grown women now have to look like six year-olds.

Did I mention thongs? Again, who was the joker who first said, "No, I won't f*** you unless you jam your underwear up your ass." Here I know whereof I speak: I've done the dance belt thing in dance classes and Shakespeare plays. Ick! Please don't say it's about panty lines; you can always tell when someone's wearing a thong. It's about women now having to say to men in order to be sexy, "Look, I'm thinking about my ass. My ass is now one layer of fabric closer to you." Women did not have to do this when I was younger; somehow they still managed to find men who would sleep with them.

Regarding tattooes, yes, it's a matter of personal taste. (Except when women are all getting lower back tattooes because everyone's doing it.) I like the human body. Every inch of it. My heart never fails to sink when I see a tattoo on a pretty woman or girl.

[wendybeth]

Haute coutere has discriminated against average and plus size men and women for years- where's the outcry there? When is the last time you saw a size 12 or higher on the catwalk, or gracing the pages of Vogue? What about older models? If event organizers feel that things have just gotten too extreme, it's their perogative to put restrictions- either way- on the models.

As for naturally gazelle-like models, they are few and far between. Most eventually admit to serious eating disorders, but not until they have aged out of the biz or quit because they wanted to develop a personal relationship with an In&Out burger.

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by wendybeth

If event organizers feel that things have just gotten too extreme, it's their perogative to put restrictions- either way- on the models.

Perhaps, but if they think it's going to change teen culture by doing so they're in for some dissappointment.

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

Perhaps, but if they think it's going to change teen culture by doing so they're in for some dissappointment.

See post 21. I think you just answered your own question.

[wendybeth]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

Perhaps, but if they think it's going to change teen culture by doing so they're in for some dissappointment.

Actually, there have been a lot of teens (including here in Spokane) who have been campaigning against all the low-rise crap out there. Several department stores in our area have responded and we can finally find decent pants for our kids now. There are always going to be those who blindly follow whatever they are told looks good and is fashionable, but there are a lot of kids out there with a strong sense of self who serve to offset the others.

[Alex]

Women did not have to do this when I was younger; somehow they still managed to find men who would sleep with them.

So maybe men don't really care as much as you say we do and women are doing it to themselves for no good reason.

Or maybe women are capable of coming to choices of aesthetics on their own, or sharing in the process, and aren't simply cowering in the face of men and the fashion industry defining sexy.

Of course, I may just be riled since you've essentially described my wife as a helpless victim of patriarchic oppression. Why you're so bothered by what she is doing under her clothes, I don't know.

Of course, since I too have tattoos, trimmed and removed pubic hair, and switched from tighty whities to forms of underwear I consider more attractive (as well as comfortable; my wife assures me she finds thongs much more comfortable but I could hardly care less what kind of underwear she wears) I would like to see banned the ultra-thin fashion models that have acted as a tool to sexually oppress me into conforming to the perverse male concept of beauty and sexiness.


I'm a victim.

[wendybeth]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

So maybe men don't really care as much as you say we do and women are doing it to themselves for no good reason.

Or maybe women are capable of coming to choices of aesthetics on their own, or sharing in the process, and aren't simply cowering in the face of men and the fashion industry defining sexy.

Of course, I may just be riled since you've essentially described my wife as a helpless victim of patriarchic oppression. Why you're so bothered by what she is doing under her clothes, I don't know.

Of course, since I too have tattoos, trimmed and removed pubic hair, and switched from tighty whities to forms of underwear I consider more attractive (as well as comfortable; my wife assures me she finds thongs much more comfortable but I could hardly care less what kind of underwear she wears) I would like to see banned the ultra-thin fashion models that have acted as a tool to sexually oppress me into conforming to the perverse male concept of beauty and sexiness.


I'm a victim.

No one said anything about victims here, Alex- and even if they were, you're not the demographic.

Thongs are fine, and everyone is entitled to their opinion as to the asthetic appeal of them. You wanna wear buttfloss, knock yourself out.

As the parent of a ten year old that couldn't find pants that didn't show parts of her anatomy that she really doesn't want to show, I can attest to the pressure that these kids are under.

Do you have a daughter, Alex? You haven't lived until your little eight year old declares they are going on a diet, because they are too fat and boys won't like them if they don't get skinny.

Now, post a pic of yourself in a thong, post-Brazilian wax, and I'll forget the above post ever happened. I'll also probably go blind, right?

[Alex]

You may be talking about 10 year old girls. But Strangler Lewis seems to be talking about all women, regardless of age (unless there are a lot of 10 year old girls getting tattoos and Brazilians) and being forced into decisions about what is sexy. Sounds like victims to me (though apparently tattoos are ok on ugly girls).

Thanks for insulting me as well. Can I assume that the sight of you mostly undressed is amazingly hideous as well?

As for your daughter, I would bet it was another girl that told her she needs to be skinny for boys to like her. Not a runway model or a man or even another young boy. Honestly, most men don't give a damn what women wear, particularly if they think it is going to be coming off.

As for the event organizers in this case, it is the government. I would like to think we can all agree it isn't a good thing for the government to start deciding what the acceptable range of appearance is before you can put yourself on display.