Is it bad that I agree with this?

[wendybeth]

Haute coutere has discriminated against average and plus size men and women for years- where's the outcry there? When is the last time you saw a size 12 or higher on the catwalk, or gracing the pages of Vogue? What about older models? If event organizers feel that things have just gotten too extreme, it's their perogative to put restrictions- either way- on the models.

As for naturally gazelle-like models, they are few and far between. Most eventually admit to serious eating disorders, but not until they have aged out of the biz or quit because they wanted to develop a personal relationship with an In&Out burger.

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by wendybeth

If event organizers feel that things have just gotten too extreme, it's their perogative to put restrictions- either way- on the models.

Perhaps, but if they think it's going to change teen culture by doing so they're in for some dissappointment.

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

Perhaps, but if they think it's going to change teen culture by doing so they're in for some dissappointment.

See post 21. I think you just answered your own question.

[wendybeth]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

Perhaps, but if they think it's going to change teen culture by doing so they're in for some dissappointment.

Actually, there have been a lot of teens (including here in Spokane) who have been campaigning against all the low-rise crap out there. Several department stores in our area have responded and we can finally find decent pants for our kids now. There are always going to be those who blindly follow whatever they are told looks good and is fashionable, but there are a lot of kids out there with a strong sense of self who serve to offset the others.

[Alex]

Women did not have to do this when I was younger; somehow they still managed to find men who would sleep with them.

So maybe men don't really care as much as you say we do and women are doing it to themselves for no good reason.

Or maybe women are capable of coming to choices of aesthetics on their own, or sharing in the process, and aren't simply cowering in the face of men and the fashion industry defining sexy.

Of course, I may just be riled since you've essentially described my wife as a helpless victim of patriarchic oppression. Why you're so bothered by what she is doing under her clothes, I don't know.

Of course, since I too have tattoos, trimmed and removed pubic hair, and switched from tighty whities to forms of underwear I consider more attractive (as well as comfortable; my wife assures me she finds thongs much more comfortable but I could hardly care less what kind of underwear she wears) I would like to see banned the ultra-thin fashion models that have acted as a tool to sexually oppress me into conforming to the perverse male concept of beauty and sexiness.


I'm a victim.

[wendybeth]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

So maybe men don't really care as much as you say we do and women are doing it to themselves for no good reason.

Or maybe women are capable of coming to choices of aesthetics on their own, or sharing in the process, and aren't simply cowering in the face of men and the fashion industry defining sexy.

Of course, I may just be riled since you've essentially described my wife as a helpless victim of patriarchic oppression. Why you're so bothered by what she is doing under her clothes, I don't know.

Of course, since I too have tattoos, trimmed and removed pubic hair, and switched from tighty whities to forms of underwear I consider more attractive (as well as comfortable; my wife assures me she finds thongs much more comfortable but I could hardly care less what kind of underwear she wears) I would like to see banned the ultra-thin fashion models that have acted as a tool to sexually oppress me into conforming to the perverse male concept of beauty and sexiness.


I'm a victim.

No one said anything about victims here, Alex- and even if they were, you're not the demographic.

Thongs are fine, and everyone is entitled to their opinion as to the asthetic appeal of them. You wanna wear buttfloss, knock yourself out.

As the parent of a ten year old that couldn't find pants that didn't show parts of her anatomy that she really doesn't want to show, I can attest to the pressure that these kids are under.

Do you have a daughter, Alex? You haven't lived until your little eight year old declares they are going on a diet, because they are too fat and boys won't like them if they don't get skinny.

Now, post a pic of yourself in a thong, post-Brazilian wax, and I'll forget the above post ever happened. I'll also probably go blind, right?

[Alex]

You may be talking about 10 year old girls. But Strangler Lewis seems to be talking about all women, regardless of age (unless there are a lot of 10 year old girls getting tattoos and Brazilians) and being forced into decisions about what is sexy. Sounds like victims to me (though apparently tattoos are ok on ugly girls).

Thanks for insulting me as well. Can I assume that the sight of you mostly undressed is amazingly hideous as well?

As for your daughter, I would bet it was another girl that told her she needs to be skinny for boys to like her. Not a runway model or a man or even another young boy. Honestly, most men don't give a damn what women wear, particularly if they think it is going to be coming off.

As for the event organizers in this case, it is the government. I would like to think we can all agree it isn't a good thing for the government to start deciding what the acceptable range of appearance is before you can put yourself on display.

[wendybeth]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

Thanks for insulting me as well. Can I assume that the sight of you mostly undressed is amazingly hideous as well?

Yes.

(By today's standards, anyway).

(And I was joking, but omitted the smilie because you are kind of touchy about those. I also kind of thought you'd get it. Having no idea what you look like, maybe you do need to post that pic.)

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

As for your daughter, I would bet it was another girl that told her she needs to be skinny for boys to like her. Not a runway model or a man or even another young boy.

I think the way these things go is that the men set the standards, the women bow to them, adopt them and perpetuate them. I very much doubt that a woman invented female genital mutilation, but it's clear that generations of women who have endured the process are involved in getting young girls ready for it.

I think the girl/woman dichotomy does not hold up. My criminal clients have mostly grown up in environments where, as youths, the wrong choice was essentially inevitable. It is a gross fiction to say that once such a person turns 18, the choices they make suddenly become rational and self-interested and free from the unwholesome influences of their youth.