Is it bad that I agree with this?

[Alex]

Women did not have to do this when I was younger; somehow they still managed to find men who would sleep with them.

So maybe men don't really care as much as you say we do and women are doing it to themselves for no good reason.

Or maybe women are capable of coming to choices of aesthetics on their own, or sharing in the process, and aren't simply cowering in the face of men and the fashion industry defining sexy.

Of course, I may just be riled since you've essentially described my wife as a helpless victim of patriarchic oppression. Why you're so bothered by what she is doing under her clothes, I don't know.

Of course, since I too have tattoos, trimmed and removed pubic hair, and switched from tighty whities to forms of underwear I consider more attractive (as well as comfortable; my wife assures me she finds thongs much more comfortable but I could hardly care less what kind of underwear she wears) I would like to see banned the ultra-thin fashion models that have acted as a tool to sexually oppress me into conforming to the perverse male concept of beauty and sexiness.


I'm a victim.

[wendybeth]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

So maybe men don't really care as much as you say we do and women are doing it to themselves for no good reason.

Or maybe women are capable of coming to choices of aesthetics on their own, or sharing in the process, and aren't simply cowering in the face of men and the fashion industry defining sexy.

Of course, I may just be riled since you've essentially described my wife as a helpless victim of patriarchic oppression. Why you're so bothered by what she is doing under her clothes, I don't know.

Of course, since I too have tattoos, trimmed and removed pubic hair, and switched from tighty whities to forms of underwear I consider more attractive (as well as comfortable; my wife assures me she finds thongs much more comfortable but I could hardly care less what kind of underwear she wears) I would like to see banned the ultra-thin fashion models that have acted as a tool to sexually oppress me into conforming to the perverse male concept of beauty and sexiness.


I'm a victim.

No one said anything about victims here, Alex- and even if they were, you're not the demographic.

Thongs are fine, and everyone is entitled to their opinion as to the asthetic appeal of them. You wanna wear buttfloss, knock yourself out.

As the parent of a ten year old that couldn't find pants that didn't show parts of her anatomy that she really doesn't want to show, I can attest to the pressure that these kids are under.

Do you have a daughter, Alex? You haven't lived until your little eight year old declares they are going on a diet, because they are too fat and boys won't like them if they don't get skinny.

Now, post a pic of yourself in a thong, post-Brazilian wax, and I'll forget the above post ever happened. I'll also probably go blind, right?

[Alex]

You may be talking about 10 year old girls. But Strangler Lewis seems to be talking about all women, regardless of age (unless there are a lot of 10 year old girls getting tattoos and Brazilians) and being forced into decisions about what is sexy. Sounds like victims to me (though apparently tattoos are ok on ugly girls).

Thanks for insulting me as well. Can I assume that the sight of you mostly undressed is amazingly hideous as well?

As for your daughter, I would bet it was another girl that told her she needs to be skinny for boys to like her. Not a runway model or a man or even another young boy. Honestly, most men don't give a damn what women wear, particularly if they think it is going to be coming off.

As for the event organizers in this case, it is the government. I would like to think we can all agree it isn't a good thing for the government to start deciding what the acceptable range of appearance is before you can put yourself on display.

[wendybeth]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

Thanks for insulting me as well. Can I assume that the sight of you mostly undressed is amazingly hideous as well?

Yes.

(By today's standards, anyway).

(And I was joking, but omitted the smilie because you are kind of touchy about those. I also kind of thought you'd get it. Having no idea what you look like, maybe you do need to post that pic.)

[Alex]

I get that you meant it as a joke. I just don't see how a joke about someone being ugly isn't also rude. Even with a smiley.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

I get that you meant it as a joke. I just don't see how a joke about someone being ugly isn't also rude. Even with a smiley.

I don't think you're ugly. You have great eyes and nice eyelashes. In fact, I like a guy with meat on their bones. Not that I'd want to sleep with you, I don't do straight guys... anymore... But you get my point.

If I was a breeder, I'd be in love with Julie (my bride friend in SF) she's my bizarro world soul mate.

Not that wenchybeth needs defending, but it was a joke. I think you've both known eachother long enough to joke in that way without it being offensive. I don't think either of you have it in you to officially hurt someone in that way.

My 2 cents with a touch of TMI.

[Alex]

Again, I know it was a joke. And it was a rude one. But my feelings aren't hurt or anything. I was just pointing it out. But then I don't feel I know wendy at all. Certainly not well enough to start in with the "you so ugly" jokes.

Strangler Lewis, it must be sad to live in a world where women have so little involement in their own lives and decisions. I commend you on the courage and bravery of your underwear selection.

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

As for your daughter, I would bet it was another girl that told her she needs to be skinny for boys to like her. Not a runway model or a man or even another young boy.

I think the way these things go is that the men set the standards, the women bow to them, adopt them and perpetuate them. I very much doubt that a woman invented female genital mutilation, but it's clear that generations of women who have endured the process are involved in getting young girls ready for it.

I think the girl/woman dichotomy does not hold up. My criminal clients have mostly grown up in environments where, as youths, the wrong choice was essentially inevitable. It is a gross fiction to say that once such a person turns 18, the choices they make suddenly become rational and self-interested and free from the unwholesome influences of their youth.

[wendybeth]

Well, if we're going to be touchy here, Alex- don't make presumptions about my kid. She's hard of hearing and homeschooled, so it's unlikely she picked up the message from her friends. She watches tv and reads magazines, and she's not stupid.

Apologies for trying to make a joke- won't happen again.