Is it bad that I agree with this?

[wendybeth]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

Thanks for insulting me as well. Can I assume that the sight of you mostly undressed is amazingly hideous as well?

Yes.

(By today's standards, anyway).

(And I was joking, but omitted the smilie because you are kind of touchy about those. I also kind of thought you'd get it. Having no idea what you look like, maybe you do need to post that pic.)

[Alex]

I get that you meant it as a joke. I just don't see how a joke about someone being ugly isn't also rude. Even with a smiley.

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

As for your daughter, I would bet it was another girl that told her she needs to be skinny for boys to like her. Not a runway model or a man or even another young boy.

I think the way these things go is that the men set the standards, the women bow to them, adopt them and perpetuate them. I very much doubt that a woman invented female genital mutilation, but it's clear that generations of women who have endured the process are involved in getting young girls ready for it.

I think the girl/woman dichotomy does not hold up. My criminal clients have mostly grown up in environments where, as youths, the wrong choice was essentially inevitable. It is a gross fiction to say that once such a person turns 18, the choices they make suddenly become rational and self-interested and free from the unwholesome influences of their youth.

[wendybeth]

Well, if we're going to be touchy here, Alex- don't make presumptions about my kid. She's hard of hearing and homeschooled, so it's unlikely she picked up the message from her friends. She watches tv and reads magazines, and she's not stupid.

Apologies for trying to make a joke- won't happen again.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

I get that you meant it as a joke. I just don't see how a joke about someone being ugly isn't also rude. Even with a smiley.

I don't think you're ugly. You have great eyes and nice eyelashes. In fact, I like a guy with meat on their bones. Not that I'd want to sleep with you, I don't do straight guys... anymore... But you get my point.

If I was a breeder, I'd be in love with Julie (my bride friend in SF) she's my bizarro world soul mate.

Not that wenchybeth needs defending, but it was a joke. I think you've both known eachother long enough to joke in that way without it being offensive. I don't think either of you have it in you to officially hurt someone in that way.

My 2 cents with a touch of TMI.

[Not Afraid]

As an adult, I like having the options of following what fashion trends I want and disgarding the rest. But, I'm 44 and I've been through the dorky unacceptable phase and have gotten to a point here I know my faults and assetts and can live with them. I also am not really concerned about impressing men. (Sure, it's nice when it happens, but it's not a motivator.)

I grew up as a coat hanger. I WAS model thin but that wasn't enough. I think the real problem is that most teens just find the grass is always greener with someone else's look. But, as an adult, I am happy I am not a coat hanger any more - except when certain fashions I want to wear need a coat hanger body.

As for tats, I love them when they are attractive. Tat boy on "Runway" has an awful tat. It highlights the fact that he doesn't have much of a chin - plus it's distracting. The only reason I haven't gotten a tat at this point in my life is that I can't make a permanent decision.

Thongs ARE comfortable with some items of clothing just as granny panties work best with others. I have choices and, damnit, I'm going to use them.

Sometimes, there's more to life than sex.

[blueerica]

Interesting thread...

I am not sure how I feel about the banning models thing. Making a big stink of it just reeks of publicity to me. Personally, I would prefer a greater (I'd say wider, but the pun would be too obvious) selection of models in terms of sizes, appearances, but it's not enough to make and break me.

As far as the other topics are concerned, I kind of see it both ways. And my personal views have grown out of having two parents who feel the world affects them in every way, removing choice and personal responsibility from the equation. I grew up when Kate Moss was popular, and I'm no skinny chick. Yeah, I had boyfriends, yeah I could get a guy to bed... It was never an issue that was based on my weight. It would have been an issue if I actually believed it was. But that's just me.

I could go on and say I have "not done" things out of someone else's wishes, but I've never done something because popular culture tells me it's what I want, and I've never done something to change myself at someone else's insistence.

On the other hand, I've made some choices about my hoo-ha that have nothing to do with anyone else's preferences. I've decided it just plain old feels better to be on the bare side of the road. Everything from the shower (and I'm not talking one of those fancy shower heads... just a straight up regular shower) to, dare I say it - masturbation, feels better. And HELLO! Bonus! No one has to choke on a pube if they... well, I think you get it.

It all started - literally - when I was just "trimming up" for wearing a bikini. I got kinda bored and "whisk." I didn't really like it at first, aesthetically. Kinda freaked me out. But you know what.. after a couple of days of my "normal routine" and after trying to grow it out again, I've just decided it's the way things are gonna be from now on. I've considered waxing, but at this point the expense kind of keeps me away... and the idea of waiting until I can wax again doesn't satisfy my impatience.

Now, I realize I have just said WAY too much, but I felt like I had to say it for all the people out there that do things because it's the way *they* like it, not because of someone else.

[Alex]

Again, I know it was a joke. And it was a rude one. But my feelings aren't hurt or anything. I was just pointing it out. But then I don't feel I know wendy at all. Certainly not well enough to start in with the "you so ugly" jokes.

Strangler Lewis, it must be sad to live in a world where women have so little involement in their own lives and decisions. I commend you on the courage and bravery of your underwear selection.

[blueerica]

Oh, Alex... but you IS so ugly! (OK, I kid I kid! I have no clue!)

Oddly "Leave My Kitten All Alone" by The Beatles just came on my iPod. Hmmm...

[Ghoulish Delight]

I took a soc. psych class that focused on the fact that so many bahaviors that we take for granted are the result of social pressure. Try standing backwards in an elevator. Try standing in a pubilc place and do absolutely nothing. Try eating a utensil-required meal with your hands. You'll feel that pressure, whether someone's there or not. You'll feel like something is wrong.

Social pressure is real.

But I found myself thinking, "Umm, so what?" during that class a lot. Because none of this was news to me. I was under no illusion that there was some amazing practical reason that people stared at you funny if you were facing the back wall of an elevator. Big deal. It bugged the heck out of me that the professor never went to the next step, the step of, "Okay, we've identified our social programming, so what do we do about it."

It wasn't until a while later that it ocurred to me...what needs to be done about it? I came to the conclusion that the "solution" isn't to try to get rid of social pressure. That's ludicrous, it's what allows society to exist. Without it, without the ability we have of a species to NOT think about every single little act, we wouldn't function.

The key, as I see it, is simply awareness on an individual level. To create a culture devoid of negative social influence is an impossible goal, and fraknly one I don't even consider a good one because with the bad goes the good. Blandness would be the only alternative.

Instead, the solution, on a per-person basis, is to simply be aware. As long as you are cognizant of the fact that your choices, your likes and dislikes, are influenced by the culture and media around you, you stand a chance of taking control of it. There's no need to reject it if you understand it.

"I face forward in elevators because I'm supposed to," is different from "I face forward in elevators because I'd rather not have people staring at me, and I can see what floor I'm on." "I wear these designer clothes because other people do," is different from "I wear these designer clothes because they flatter me and improve my chances of positive social interaction."

If you're aware of the source of influences, you stand a chance of recognizing when it's better to ignore them.