The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux) - Page 124

Moonliner · 09-28-2006, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Ah, yes, getting the locals to assist will work out just swell in Muslim territory. Uh-huh.

Let's face it, it comes down to killing EVERYONE indiscriminently. And not just tons of people, as just happened in Lebanon - with Hezbollah pretty much unaffected. No, you have to kill EVERYONE.

Who's game?

Rather makes you wonder why we are in Iraq in the first place don't it?

Alex · 09-28-2006, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

And "winning" against a guerilla insurgency is accomplished just how exactly? Can you point to any example in the last, oh, 500 years?

Both Boer Wars were essentially guerilla wars that were successfully suppressed.

The Greek Civil War (1946-1949) saw the government successfully put down a Communist insurgency.

The Tupamaros in Uruguay were successfully suppressed in '70s by the government (which then fell to the military in a coup).

Though the Phillipines presented a long series of different insurgencies a Muslim insurgency in 1911 was successfully stopped.

The original Irish Republican Army was successfully defeated in the 1930s. (this was a political organization essentially separate from the modern IRA which falsely claims continuity with the anti-Treaty branch of the original IRA.)

SacTown Chronic · 09-28-2006, 11:04 AM

So being in Iraq makes matters worse but we have to stay in Iraq and beat the insurgents/terrorists/jihadists because leaving is even worse than making things worse, is that it? Perpetual war is FANtastic!

We're going to need a king who can stomach untold losses of our military men and women and remain resolute. If only such a man existed.

scaeagles · 10-02-2006, 07:06 AM

I'm mad. Like majorly pissed off mad.

The republicans have a pedofile predator in their leadership in Congress.

Granted no one is responsible for their behavior except themselves. But it looks like it was known for a year. And no one did a damn thing about it. He had a reputation among the pages as someone to stay away from.

Every person in the republican leadership who knew about this prior to it breaking should be kicked out of office. Hastert, whomever. And now Foley has the audacity to blame it on alcoholism? Hastert, who apparently knew about it, now has the chutzpah to say that there should be a criminal investigation.

I can't say I think Hastert is guilty of a crime. But he is guilty of the worst kind of politics, as it looks as if he was simply interested in protecting the seat. I am amazed that some people are crying politics at the timing of the release of this. What? That makes me sick. The politics were being played by republican house leaderhship.

Scum.

Moonliner · 10-02-2006, 07:21 AM

Oh and lets not forget to mention that the "preditor" was also a Co-chairman of the Missing and Exploited Children Caucus.

Scum.

Gemini Cricket · 10-02-2006, 07:24 AM

My Daily Grind troll moment!

Yesterday I saw this bumpersticker:

Grand Oil Party

I thought of Leo.

That is all.

Alex · 10-02-2006, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Granted no one is responsible for their behavior except themselves. But it looks like it was known for a year. And no one did a damn thing about it. He had a reputation among the pages as someone to stay away from.

Here is the text of the emails Hastert may have seen last year.

Quote:

how are you weathering the hurricane...are you safe...send me an email pic of you as well...

and

Quote:

i just emailed will...hes such a nice guy...acts much older than his age...and he's in really great shape...i am just finishing riding my bike on a 25 mile journey and heading to the gym...whats school like for you this year.

and

Quote:

I am in North Carolina...and it was !00 in New Orleans...wow that's really hot...well do you miss DC...Its raining here but 68 degrees so who can argue...did you have fun at your conference...what do you want for your birthday coming up...what stuff do you like to do.

and

Quote:

glad you are home safe and sound...we don't go back into session until Sept 5...its a nice long break...I am back in Florida now...its nice here...been raining today...it sounds like you will have some fun over the next few weeks...how old are you now?...

If he did see them at that time (this is in dispute) it was in the context of the kids parents saying that they didn't want the matter persued but wanted Foley to stop emailing. Foley was told to break contact with the kid and he promised to do so.

Personally, in hindsight of the later, apparently more sexual contacts these emails above become creepy. But based solely on those emails I wouldn't have thought it a big deal. Especially since I imagine that when Representative Shimkus (the guy in charge of the pages) and House clerk Trandahl talked to him he probably said something like "oh that's too bad that he took my interest in his future that way. Boy that's embarrassing. He did some good work for me last year and showed a lot of promise and I just wanted to stay in touch so I could be a good contact for him through college and stuff. But sure, I'll stop emailing him."

Based solely on those emails I probably wouldn't have thought it a big deal. Certainly not enough to destroy a man's career over. So I'm inclined to cut Hastert some slack on this one unless something more damning comes up.

Alex · 10-02-2006, 09:05 AM

I'm not putting this out ther to in any way exonerate Foley. I just find it interesting, perhaps as a sign of changing times.

In 1983 a House investigation determined that two congressmen had actually had sex with pages. Initially Congress was going to simply reprimand them but Newt Gringrich demanded they be expelled and eventually the House compromised and officially censured both of them.

Congressman A tearfully apologized and lost his next attempt at re-election. He had had sex with a female page in 1980. Congressman B was defiant. He had sex with a male page in 1973. He held a press conference with the former page (both pages in question were 17 at the time of the sex) essentially telling people to mind their own damn business. He went on to be reelected six more times before retiring of his own free will in 1996 (and in 2005, at the age of 68, had one of the homosexual marriages in Massachusetts; not to the former page).

So an interesting comparison. The obvious differences being that Foley's advances were likely not reciprocated. But on the other hand it was nothing but words.

JWBear · 10-02-2006, 09:06 AM

^^^ You've got to be joking.....

ETA I'm refering to #1237, not 1238.

Alex · 10-02-2006, 09:56 AM

Got to be joking about what? Yes, I agree it is deplorable that a Congressman is so cavalier about punctuation.

09-28-2006, 11:04 AM	#1233
SacTown Chronic the myth of the dream Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,217	So being in Iraq makes matters worse but we have to stay in Iraq and beat the insurgents/terrorists/jihadists because leaving is even worse than making things worse, is that it? Perpetual war is FANtastic! We're going to need a king who can stomach untold losses of our military men and women and remain resolute. If only such a man existed.
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10-02-2006, 07:06 AM	#1234
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	I'm mad. Like majorly pissed off mad. The republicans have a pedofile predator in their leadership in Congress. Granted no one is responsible for their behavior except themselves. But it looks like it was known for a year. And no one did a damn thing about it. He had a reputation among the pages as someone to stay away from. Every person in the republican leadership who knew about this prior to it breaking should be kicked out of office. Hastert, whomever. And now Foley has the audacity to blame it on alcoholism? Hastert, who apparently knew about it, now has the chutzpah to say that there should be a criminal investigation. I can't say I think Hastert is guilty of a crime. But he is guilty of the worst kind of politics, as it looks as if he was simply interested in protecting the seat. I am amazed that some people are crying politics at the timing of the release of this. What? That makes me sick. The politics were being played by republican house leaderhship. Scum.
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10-02-2006, 07:21 AM	#1235
Moonliner 8/30/14 - Disneyland -10k or Bust. Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 9,022	Oh and lets not forget to mention that the "preditor" was also a Co-chairman of the Missing and Exploited Children Caucus. Scum. __________________ - Taking it one step at a time.
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10-02-2006, 07:24 AM	#1236
Gemini Cricket ... Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,244	My Daily Grind troll moment! Yesterday I saw this bumpersticker: Grand Oil Party I thought of Leo. That is all.
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10-02-2006, 09:05 AM	#1238
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	I'm not putting this out ther to in any way exonerate Foley. I just find it interesting, perhaps as a sign of changing times. In 1983 a House investigation determined that two congressmen had actually had sex with pages. Initially Congress was going to simply reprimand them but Newt Gringrich demanded they be expelled and eventually the House compromised and officially censured both of them. Congressman A tearfully apologized and lost his next attempt at re-election. He had had sex with a female page in 1980. Congressman B was defiant. He had sex with a male page in 1973. He held a press conference with the former page (both pages in question were 17 at the time of the sex) essentially telling people to mind their own damn business. He went on to be reelected six more times before retiring of his own free will in 1996 (and in 2005, at the age of 68, had one of the homosexual marriages in Massachusetts; not to the former page). So an interesting comparison. The obvious differences being that Foley's advances were likely not reciprocated. But on the other hand it was nothing but words.
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10-02-2006, 09:06 AM	#1239
JWBear Worn Romantic Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Long Beach California Posts: 8,435	^^^ You've got to be joking..... ETA I'm refering to #1237, not 1238. __________________ Unrestrained frivolity will lead to the downfall of modern society.
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10-02-2006, 09:56 AM	#1240
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	Got to be joking about what? Yes, I agree it is deplorable that a Congressman is so cavalier about punctuation.
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