Yes, we can.

[scaeagles]

Obama, I'm sorry, is an idiot. He is saying that proposals to drill for oil domesitically decrease our energy independence.

What Obama has to say


How does drilling for domestic oil decrease out energy independence?

"But his decision to completely change his position and tell a group of Houston oil executives exactly what they wanted to hear today was the same Washington politics that has prevented us from achieving energy independence for decades," the Illinois senator said in a statement.

If only we had drilled when Clinton sid the same thing about ANWR in 1995.

"Much like his gas tax gimmick that would leave consumers with pennies in savings, opening our coastlines to offshore drilling would take at least a decade to produce any oil at all, and the effect on gasoline prices would be negligible at best since America only has three percent of the world's oil."

Even if only 3% of the oil, a number I doubt but would need to research, we can use it. And if you include currently restrict shale oil in the rockies, we have a lot more than that.

Instead, let's use windfall profits tax to discourage any investment! Brilliant!

I'm sorry - whether you agree with drilling domestically or not, to say that increasing domestic production decreases energy independence makes one a fool.

[innerSpaceman]

That count me in (as I'm sure you already have). Energy independence comes only from post-petroleum sources of energy.

Perhaps (and I didn't hear what he had to say) Obama is talking about true energy independence, and not the temporary and fleetingly effective "independence" of being slightly less reliant on foreign sources for a slight bit of time.

[Ghoulish Delight]

What iSm says. Anything that keeps us sucking the oil teet keeps us from being energy independent.

[scaeagles]

I disagree.

A recent discovery in North Dakota (which goes into South Dakota and Montana as well) called the Bakkan Formation could replace all of our imported oil for about 40 years.

It is estimated at between 175 and 500 billion barrels. At the low end, say 200 billion, that replaces the 14 million barrels of oil we import daily for 39 years. One oil field, all by itself. Let alone off shore and Alaskan oil.

That's one hell of a long time to continue developing other technologies, which I'm all for and no one of conscience is against.

So in 10 years, if nothing is done, and oil is running at $300/barrel, again, someone will say "we can't do that - it will be 10 years until we could even get oil from it", we have no one to blame but those who will not permit it to be done.

[Ghoulish Delight]

And yet if we called you an idiot for disagreeing with us...

[Alex]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

A recent discovery

It isn't a recent discovery. Oil in the area has been known for 50 years, the debate has been about how much is there.

in North Dakota (which goes into South Dakota and Montana as well) called the Bakkan Formation could replace all of our imported oil for about 40 years.

True, only if currently unknown technology is dropped in our laps.

It is estimated at between 175 and 500 billion barrels. At the low end, say 200 billion, that replaces the 14 million barrels of oil we import daily for 39 years. One oil field, all by itself. Let alone off shore and Alaskan oil.

Again, true. There is a huge amount of oil. And per the very reports that gave the estimate of quantity you mention, only about 3.6 billion of it is in a form that is recoverable with currently known technology. So, now instead of 40 years of oil (by current usage) we are down to 257 days of oil.

It is kind of like saying we'll always have fresh water because there is a huge amount of it in the troposphere. Perhaps true, but we have no good way to get it.

Plus, they are already ramping up production of drilling in that region (therw it isn't particularly controversial) since high prices make it worth their while. So if these drills alone can provide all of our needs for 40 years, then obviously drilling offshore in the gulf and in ANWR can't possible do anything to reduce energy dependence since we've already solved that problem.

That's one hell of a long time to continue developing other technologies, which I'm all for and no one of conscience is against.

Except that, to get the benefit you see claim for that field we will have to wait for the benefit of other technology, which a lot of people aren't for and many of conscience are against.

[scaeagles]

OK....that's fair. I'll even apologize. I do not consider anyone here to be an idiot and was typing out of disgust for Obama.

I will say that I do not understand why tapping into our own natural resources, which are abundant, is not considered a good solution, particularly with the high price of oil, unrest in the middle east, and increasing demand for oil in massive and emerging middle class nations uch as India and China. Even if a temporary solution, there is nothing wroing with a temporary solution while permanent solutions are developed.

Obama, as a politician, is making speeches that do make him sound like an idiot. From windfall profits to environmental fears to saying allowing drilling only makes the oil companies richer, he is making no sense whatsoever.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Alex

It isn't a recent discovery. Oil in the area has been known for 50 years, the debate has been about how much is there.

True, only if currently unknown technology is dropped in our laps.

Again, I should have been more clear. Recent developments I have read about horizontal drilling techniques have made the oil there come into play recently. It has been known about for a long time.

[wendybeth]

I've read about the new drilling tech specially developed to tap those fields, and I've also read that the oil reserves are quite a bit larger than first thought. As oil prices have risen, it's motivated companies to put capital into such ventures, and there has definitely been serious interest in developing alternatives as well. We will never be independent until we are able to wean ourselves of of oil, and things have to get pretty bad before companies and people are willing to look for viable alternatives. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what Obama means and yet again, much ado about nada here.

Geeze, Scaeagles- where have you been these past eight years with Dubya at the helm? You can't understand anything that Obama has to say, but you seemed to have no problem with George? I certainly can't recall you ever going after him like you do Obama, and the man can't string together a complete sentence.

[Alex]

And, so far as I can tell the latest drilling abilities are taken into account for the 3.6 billion barrel figure. The reports were just issues a month ago.