Yes, we can.

[Alex]

I would posit three contributing factors (among many I'm sure):

1. I'm sure plenty feel like their still fighting their own fight and would prefer society focus on them until it is done. A form of "hey, I'm walking here, wait your turn."

2. The center of "black civil culture" and the power structure within it is heavily dominated by somewhat fundamentalist evangelical Christian religions. And just as with the predominantly white versions of these churches aren't sympathetic to the homosexuality as an acceptable state of being, the black churches aren't really any friendlier. They may recognize that the struggle is similar in form but that doesn't mean you have to think it is similar in justification.

3. You aren't being exposed to a wide enough cross section of black intellectuals, leaders, and communities to be aware of the communities that do support gay rights.

[JWBear]

Coretta Scott King was a strong supporter of gay rights.

[Strangler Lewis]

Speaking as a lesbian of color, it's my view that one's own oppression does not necessarily give one perspective or empathy.

[scaeagles]

I think it does to the masses, though. To equate slaery or the holocaust with denial of state sanctioned marriages doesn't play well to Joe on the corner.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I think it does to the masses, though. To equate slaery or the holocaust with denial of state sanctioned marriages doesn't play well to Joe on the corner.

Oh, I don't deny that, I fully understand WHY the perception is what it is. I just think it's wrong.

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I think it does to the masses, though. To equate slaery or the holocaust with denial of state sanctioned marriages doesn't play well to Joe on the corner.

Average Joe on the corner may be right, and, like many, he may profess not to give a sh*t one way or the other.

One would think, however, that Lunatic Joe, who feels that [i]his[i] precious marital rights are being trampled upon by the prospect of gay marriage might be able to pause for a moment and think about how the other side feels.

[innerSpaceman]

And perhaps that's why we DID have to wait (and I'm not complaining) until women were given the vote, and stopped being so blatently discriminated against in employment (though they still don't make dollar for dollar with men), and had to wait until blacks were freed from slavery, freed from Jim Crow, given fair housing, employment and voting rights under the law.

That's just under the law, of course. Hearts and minds will take centuries, perhaps, to catch up to that. Because people of color are still taking dehumanizing sh!t every day of their lives.


But, ok, so now let the law catch up to gays, and let the clock on centuries of waiting for hearts and minds and TRUE equality start ticking.


And ya know what, our oppression may be a little less than that of blacks ... but it sucks hard being the last remaining minority it's ok to openly hate. Like we are the lowest of the low, the dregs of every society. You can't come out against any other racial or ethnic group ... but in too many parts of our society, it's still alright to hate faggots.


And yeah, marriage rights might seem trifling. We wouldn't bother if we hadn't already tackled housing and employment rights ... in the law, if not in practice. Enough. Time for the full and totally equality guaranteed us by the Constitution and ours as inalienable by virture of our humanity.

Moreso, it's not about where we live this time, or how we work ... but about who we love, the essence of our gayness. We WILL have that legitimized by society ... because it IS LEGITIMATE TO BE GAY.

[wendybeth]

Visible iSm mojo.


I can't imagine how horrible it would be to love someone absolutely and be denied the same rights that other couples are afforded- you have to remember, this goes above and beyond simply pledging oneself to another. Heterosexual spouses have rights under the law that supersede parental; in other words, the family of one spouse can't deny you the right to see your loved one in the hospital, or take away material possessions should they pass, or .........the list goes on and on. Then there is the basic human dignity aspect which iSm addresses- it's absolute bull**** in this day and age that gay people have to hide their orientation or face serious persecution. I think this is just a sliver of the pile of merde they have to deal with in life, and I think it's flat out wrong. Not just from my own ethical standpoint, but legally as well. I really do believe this is the last frontier of civil rights and one who's time has finally come.

[scaeagles]

I didn't say Joe was anti gay marriage. I said Joe has a hard time equating slavery et al to marriage issues.

[Strangler Lewis]

And I agreed that average Joe may not care one way or the other, but that plenty of lunatic Joes approach the "assault on traditional marriage" with the passion appropriate to a civil rights issue.

Though I may disagree with the goals, that kind of passion seems appropriate to the anti abortion movement. The anti-gay marriage folks just look like a bunch of unreconstructed racists.