Yes, we can.

[sleepyjeff]

^Correction, as of this morning Obama is listed at 58% chance of winning...oddly enough though, McCains chances did not increase with Obamas decrease.

[scaeagles]

If that's Obama's Veep, just wait until the quotes from early in the campaign start flying....Biden slammed on Obama worse than and republican. I don't see it being Biden for just that reason.

[innerSpaceman]

I don't see it being Biden because he's the one I like of the three apparent finalists.

[scaeagles]

So Obama says yesterday -

"Everybody's watching what's going on in Beijing right now with the Olympics. Think about the amount of money that China has spent on infrastructure. Their ports, their train systems, their airports are vastly the superior to us now, which means if you are a corporation deciding where to do business, you're starting to think, 'Beijing looks like a pretty good option.'"

Is he serious? Beijing is among, if not itself, the most polluted city in the world. They built this infrastructure specifically for the Olympics and for the image it would portray. The slums get no play. He has completely bought into the propaganda coming from the Olympics. This does not even mention how they built this infrastructure, with the displacement of thousands of people (if not hundreds of thousands) and ignoring devastating infrastructure issues that exist in other areas, such as the earthquake zone. Something tells me Obama wouldn't be keen on building up one American city at the expense of the much of the rest of the country getting nothing.

Also, just as one insane example in that quote, wasn't it just in December that over 500,000 people were stranded for weeks because the train system broke down?

And this is not to be critical of Obama, but it has come out the Hillary was never even investigated as a VP candidate. While I can't imagine that he would have ever considered her, I think it was a huge mistake not to make it appear as if he had. That's gonna be a huge slap in the face of the already disgruntled Hillary supporters.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Is he serious? Beijing is among, if not itself, the most polluted city in the world. They built this infrastructure specifically for the Olympics and for the image it would portray. The slums get no play. He has completely bought into the propaganda coming from the Olympics. This does not even mention how they built this infrastructure, with the displacement of thousands of people (if not hundreds of thousands) and ignoring devastating infrastructure issues that exist in other areas, such as the earthquake zone. Something tells me Obama wouldn't be keen on building up one American city at the expense of the much of the rest of the country getting nothing.

Can you point to the source of the quote so I can see the context? Because your rebuttal doesn't seem to directly have anything to do with what he said in quoted portion. He didn't say that the development of Beijing is something to be emulated he said it is something drawing the attention of business. Which is undeniably true.

But maybe there was something in the surrounding statement that gives it a different tone.

That's gonna be a huge slap in the face of the already disgruntled Hillary supporters.

But wouldn't coddling her with a symbolic vetting not have been another indicator that he'd roll over at the first sign of Russian aggression?

The Obama camp response is that they spent 18 months vetting her so they could campaign against her and already know about her. Can't say how it'll play in terms of political wisdom but I don't imagine that anybody who refuses to vote for Obama because he didn't check her out will be mollified any by the knowledge that he had and then STILL didn't choose her.

On another topic, I caught part of MSNBC political coverage the other night and Chris Dodd (or Chuck Dodd or Larry Todd, anyway the readheaded goateed guy) was saying that about 80% of the people still labeling themselves as undecided in these polls are Hillary Clinton supporters.

Unless the only reason they were supporting Clinton is that she was a woman and that overruled their more conservative leanings, regardless of hurt feelings I don't really see them breaking for McCain in a large way.

[sleepyjeff]

Intrade.com has Biden at 60.1. That's 5 times greater than any single other VP hopeful.

Drop down $600 and make a cool $400 over night if you think he's a sure thing

[Kevy Baby]

I haven't been following this thread, so if this was mentioned earlier, I apologize.

There is an email circulating with some erroneous information about how taxes will skyrocket under Obama. The requisite Snopes link.

[scaeagles]

My point with Obama and his praise of Beijing is that, well, he's praising Beijing. As far as context, you are correct in that he's saying why businesses would want to locate there, and of course it is deniable. The pollution is undeniable....how long do you think they will keep their factories shut down and the cars off the roads? Obama is suggesting that we need to look at the example of China and how they've invested in Beijing and do the same in our cities. What he doesn't either acknowledge or realize is the cost paid in Beijing and other areas in China to build stadiums and put more trains on the tracks.

I suppose we could also look to the Three Gorges Dam as an example of the superiority of China (he did use the term vastly superior), but that displaced well over 1 million people. Should the US do similar things? Mind you, I was pissed that imminent domain was used to evict a lady that had lived in her house in downtown Phoenix for 5 decades to build a freakin' baseball stadium.

Obama has taken the image of what has been shown on the Olympics and is touting it as what it is really like there. Honestly, I don't know why a business would look to what he's listed, note what he is ignoring, and decide to locate there.

Just my opinion.

[Ghoulish Delight]

He didn't say it was done ethically or without great cost (he started by pointing out how much they spent). All he's saying is that China has used the Olympic spotlight to make themselves VERY attractive to businesses, which is something we need to be aware of. He didn't say we should emulate it, he was just pointing it out because it's something that should be taken into account going forward.

[scaeagles]

I didn't take it like that at all.....uh, I suppose that's obvious, but in using words "vastly superior", it would seem like he is saying that we should emulate it.