Concern for France and Europe

[Morrigoon]

I heard some folks in the office discussing this yesterday, and one of the ladies has friends that live in France. She was saying that they encourage these people to come from French-speaking/occupied Muslim countries, they give them "dual citizenship", but that the French don't really consider them real French citizens because they aren't white. So they come to France, find no jobs and a population that refuses to recognize their perfectly valid French citizenship. In addition they're living practically on top of eachother in those slums (drawing my silent mental comparison to our immigration probem), and the whole thing is just a recipe for disaster. I'm sure it doesn't help that France has recently engaged in some Muslim-unfriendly legislation lately. Remember that whole thing about disallowing any outward displays of religion in school? The catholics had to give up their crosses on necklaces, but the muslim girls had to give up their headscarves! Not exactly an equal trade, is it? One side gives up jewelry, the other side is forced to dress in a mode they consider immodest. Imagine if the government forced all our little girls to go to school with their navels exposed...

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Morrigoon

Imagine if the government forced all our little girls to go to school with their navels exposed...

Is it really safe to say such things with Kevy reading these boards?

[scaeagles]

I have heard about a book by, of all people, Pat Buchanen. I am not a huge Buchanen fan, but he has an interesting point. Why were Muslims encouraged to come to France (as Morrigoon has pointed out) from poor areas in North Africa (in particular)? Because the French wanted cheap labor. Well, their economy has struggled, and so who are the first to lose their jobs? Those that were encouraged to come because of a desire for cheap labor.

He draws a parallel between that and our desire for cheap labor from Mexico. He then draws the conclusion that since many Mexican nationals believe that the American Southwest belongs to them anyway, we will soon be seeing such riots here.

Interesting conclusion, but one I disagree with. The rioting in France, I believe, is just as social as it is economic in origin. I do not see religious fanaticism and a separatist mentality, nor a desire to change the entire American culture, in the illegal immigration coming from Mexico.

[tracilicious]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Interesting conclusion, but one I disagree with. The rioting in France, I believe, is just as social as it is economic in origin. I do not see religious fanaticism and a separatist mentality, nor a desire to change the entire American culture, in the illegal immigration coming from Mexico.

I can see it, but not right now. Give it 50 years and if things stay the way they are now w/Mexican immigrants and I think we'll see some trouble.

[Prudence]

Originally Posted by tracilicious

I can see it, but not right now. Give it 50 years and if things stay the way they are now w/Mexican immigrants and I think we'll see some trouble.

Are you sure it's not happening now? Granted, there isn't the same push to "destroy the infidel," but there are certainly areas that qualify as immigrant enclaves - where law enforcement enters warily and non-immigrants don't enter at all.

[blueerica]

I am smarter for taking the time to read this thread...

Definitely food for thought... Keep up the information, as psychology and social implications have become of greater and greater interest to me!!

TY!

[tracilicious]

Originally Posted by Prudence

Are you sure it's not happening now? Granted, there isn't the same push to "destroy the infidel," but there are certainly areas that qualify as immigrant enclaves - where law enforcement enters warily and non-immigrants don't enter at all.

Perhaps it is. I'm fairly sheltered, I suppose. Has anyone else seen A Day Without a Mexican? Very thought provoking.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Prudence

Are you sure it's not happening now? Granted, there isn't the same push to "destroy the infidel," but there are certainly areas that qualify as immigrant enclaves - where law enforcement enters warily and non-immigrants don't enter at all.

Yes, but there isn't a particularly perceptible difference between Hispanic (or even specifically Mexican) violent immigrant disenfranchisement vs. the violent expression of disenfranchisment seen in other non-Hisapanic/Mexican neighborhoods. Or, to put it another way, a dangerous ghetto is a dangerous ghetto, no matter the ethnic make-up here. Of course there's always some nuance, but their identity as foreigners, at least from my limited perspective, doesn't seem to be the defining cause of the situation you describe. It seems to be more triggered by the broader problems brought on by being economically depressed that are common to all people.

[Prudence]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Yes, but there isn't a particularly perceptible difference between Hispanic (or even specifically Mexican) violent immigrant disenfranchisement vs. the violent expression of disenfranchisment seen in other non-Hisapanic/Mexican neighborhoods. Or, to put it another way, a dangerous ghetto is a dangerous ghetto, no matter the ethnic make-up here. Of course there's always some nuance, but their identity as foreigners, at least from my limited perspective, doesn't seem to be the defining cause of the situation you describe. It seems to be more triggered by the broader problems brought on by being economically depressed that are common to all people.

I think that in some situations their identity as foreigners is a critical factor. Some groups have a language separation that other groups do not. This contributes to, and in some cases encourages, the creation of enclaves of particular ethnic groups. In reality, there are many people in this country, as well, who have no interest in assimilating. Or families where the children don't think it's cool to assimilate -- where assimilation is seen as turning one's back on one's "otherness" and a betrayal of family and heritage.

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by Prudence

I think that in some situations their identity as foreigners is a critical factor. Some groups have a language separation that other groups do not. This contributes to, and in some cases encourages, the creation of enclaves of particular ethnic groups. In reality, there are many people in this country, as well, who have no interest in assimilating. Or families where the children don't think it's cool to assimilate -- where assimilation is seen as turning one's back on one's "otherness" and a betrayal of family and heritage.

Perhaps it's becasue i live in Southern Califiornia, but the multi-cultural nature of this place makes "assimilation" kind of transparent, as the "norm" has stretched quite a bit and encompasses quite a bit of diversity. Europe on the other hand seems generations away from reaching such a point as they must first think of themselves as Europeans - just like the Turks.